what was the best XI England could muster in the '90s when everyone was fit/in form?

[mr_mister]

apologies for beating a dead horse - i've discussed this random part of England's history almost to a savant level since joining this forum and have been accused of talking too much about Atherton, Stewart, Hick etc. It's probably because I really got into the nerdier side of cricket due to my love for International Cricket Captain 1, set in 1998 and always longed for the chance to talk about those players.

This is an ATG XI thread, but only for England in the '90s. It's always fascinated me how England managed to go through so many players in a ten year span between 88-98, I feel that has to be a record for most debuting players in ten years.


In the batting there were the mainstays like Stewart, Atherton, Thorpe and Hussain, the FC heavyweights who never held down a test spot(Rampracash, Hick, Crawley, Fairbrother, Knight) and other talented players who had solid little stints at the front and back halfs of the decade (Robin Smith, Butcher). Along with Graham Gooch, all these careers overlapped with each other. In 1995 I'd say all 12 of the players I just mentioned were eligible for selection and most of them managed to play an insanely high amount of tests relative to fringe players in other countries.


There's the whole Russell/Stewart debate, the inability to find a decent All-Rounder, all the lads fighting for the spin spot(Such, Croft, Tufnell, Giles) and of course, the pacemen, of which I can't even count how many options were tried, it seemed truly ridiculous how many random scrubs were given a chance.


This is what I feel is the best they could have done. Sorry to Nasser, he'd make it if if you want toss Gooch due to his age. Dunno if all these guys ever played in the same match together, but I know they would have been eligible in the mid 90s. feel like one of the chronic underachievers full of potential (ramps and hick) deserved a run at 6. It's a long tail but I feel Cork wasn't quite the pacemen those 3 were

Atherton
Gooch
Stewart
Smith
Thorpe
Hick
Russell
Gough
Caddick
Fraser
Tufnell

 

[ImpatientLime]

Nasser was a vastly superior test bat to Hick.

The only reason I can see myself picking Hick over Hussain in that side is if I were to play four seamers (Cork over Tufnell) as Hick is the only one of the top 6 capable of chucking down some part time pies.

Athers obviously bowled some horrible leg breaks before his back gave in.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah, definitely bias on my part there. I really liked Hick and Ramprakash, always seemed to love players who had vast potential but couldn't hold a place in the team (Matt Elliott and Greg Blewett too)

 

[Shady Slim]

ramprakash had a pretty good average against australia

everyone knows that the ashes are the only cricketing contest that matters

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Kick Athers to the curb, put in Stewart to open and pretty much anyone from John Crawley to Mark Lathwell to bat three and you have a better team.

It's an interesting question this. Realistically, Hick and Ramprakash should have been in this line-up. It's a tough question to ponder as to what extent their respective failures were due to mismanagement and psychological pressure. Both had more talent and better techniques than Atherton.

 

[Red]

Hick was an amazing slipper.

 

[Tom Flint]

International cricket captain...probably the greatest game ever made

 

[mr_mister]

yeah what i'd give to play through a '98 season again. next to impossible tho

 

[Tom Flint]

I had a guy called mark wagh at Warwickshire he was a run machine, then could never get it off the square if I called him up when england captain! The end of season transfers were the best part of the game

 

[mr_mister]

I remember that dude as well, his picture and everything

 

[cpr]

If were talking in form, then I suppose Hick and Ramps have to be considered, I'd probably play one rather than the age card against Gooch.

The bowling looks rather light, and missing Malcolm - like you said, in form is what were looking at, and he could be ferocious. Would say goodbye to Russell on the grounds Stewart was more than capable.

 

[mr_mister]

So it's agreed Tuffers was the best spinner of the decade? Croft would be far more useful with the bat

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Still think Such was a better bowler than Tuffers, but the difference is marginal and the sample size for Tufnell was much larger.

And neither could bat for toffee.

Not found: Ian Salisbury

 

[mr_mister]

How about DeFreitas to strengthen to bowling and batting @ 7

 

[doesitmatter]

Dean Headley.I thought was a very good/skillful bowler..Much better than Devon Malcolm(except his "You guys are history" spell) any day..

 

[mr_mister]

so how about this -

A team

Gooch
Atherton
Hussain
Smith
Thorpe
Hick
Stewart
Gough
Caddick
Fraser
Tufnell


B team

Knight
Butcher
Crawley
Ramprakash
Fairbrother
A. Hollioake
Russell
Headley
Such
Mullally
Malcolm

 

[Red]

It's a pretty sad line up.

Gooch
Atherton
Stewart
Hussain
Smith
Thorpe
DeFreitas
Gough
Caddick
Fraser
Tufnell

 

[wpdavid]

It's a pretty sad line up.

Gooch
Atherton
Stewart
Hussain
Smith
Thorpe
DeFreitas
Gough
Caddick
Fraser
Tufnell

The last five wickets would generally fall for about 20 - Daffy, Gough and Caddick are all at least one place too high. The first two probably two places too high, thinking about it.

Add Gooch to the 'squad' for 1997 Ashes and 1998 vs SA, and your pretty much there. Maybe Smith as well. I suppose the discussion would be whether Stewart opened or kept wicket and batted at 6. I'd probably choose the former and play Hick at 6. The rest of the top 5 being Gooch, Hussain, Smith and Thorpe, of course.

But we'd still have the problem of finding a lower middle order, as none of the bowlers could bat above number 9. Maybe Cork, but that's about it. Certainly none of the likelier candidates with the ball such as Gough, Headley or Fraser, who would be by first choice attack. Ditto Caddick or De Freitas who would be next in line. Chris Lewis would have been a shoe-in at number 7 or 8 if his career had kicked on, but of course it didn't. And it didn't help that our one decent spinner (Tufnell) couldn't follow the steps of guys like Emburey or Miller batting wise.

In summary, the best I can come up with might look like:

1. Gooch
2. Stewart
3. Hussain
4. Smith
5. Thorpe
6. Hick
7. Russell
8. Gough
9. Headley
10. Fraser
11. Tufnell

 

[Tom Flint]

Angus Fraser has made it into everyone's xi...blimey, were we really that bad in the 90s!?

 

[mr_mister]

I thought it was widely agreed Fraser and Gough were England's best 2 bowlers in 90s