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Thread: Basic questions

  1. #76
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    American joins CW looking to learn about cricket, several pages later it always ends up the same...........Why isn't like baseball?
    Americans who join CW are people like SS who actually like sport and get it immediately

    Trolls who use 'i want to learn' as a crap veil for shitting on the sport have threads like this.
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  2. #77
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    Americans who join CW are people like SS who actually like sport and get it immediately

    Trolls who use 'i want to learn' as a crap veil for shitting on the sport have threads like this.
    Haha he even sent me a PM asking why I don't like Baseball and explaining what a beautiful game it is! This guy is the equivalent of the Christian missionaries visiting poor countries with the purpose to convert, lol.
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    "Cricket is an art. Like all arts it has a technical foundation. To enjoy it does not require technical knowledge, but analysis that is not technically based is mere impressionism."
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Ian View Post
    One of the parts of cricket you can come to love is the way the game unfolds in the 3rd and 4th days. Teams want to win and they have to find the balance between batting for too long and killing the game or declaring too early and losing it. **** Keep in mind, what was mentioned earlier. The deterioration of a pitch over each day means that batting gets harder and harder as time goes on. Winning is not about being invincible. It is about giving the other team sufficient opportunity to lose.

    Also understand, that in test cricket, bowlers win games. Batsmen are only there to give bowlers enough runs to work with so that they can get the other team out. In limited overs games, batsmen win games and bowlers are only there to make batsmen's targets easier.
    I get it and appreciate it, but these kinds of things don't separate cricket from any other sport. Whether their favorite is soccer, NFL, whatever, people are loving their sport because of the tension of the competition, the rushing around and sensational feats of athleticism and skills, the unexpected things that happen for good and for bad, the strong and weak decisions and strategies, the players who transcend their skill set, the lucky breaks, the up and coming strategies, the young stars on the ascent, the fading old timers who gave them so many memories, and so forth. Some sports add danger, brutality and the risk of death to that mix. Many add off-the-field activities too.

    I can't say it isn't unsettling to me at least a little that some sports, cricket apparently among them, permit a bad or underperforming team to nevertheless escape with a technical draw by means of playing keep-away. Soccer and hockey (and in some places basketball) allow a four corner offense that is, when it comes down to it, really the defense of stalling. But at least in those sports, the score has to be even for the game to end drawn.

    Cricket, not so much. From the discussion here, it sounds like an outmatched team can go into a stall configuration by doing little more than defending the wicket while trying to burn as many of the 450 overs as it can, and beating a team like that means not only outscoring and out thinking them but having to scramble and have good luck smile on you after you have them beaten so you can get to the finish line. So it isn't for everyone. No sport is.
    Last edited by rodk; 30-11-2018 at 05:35 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    If you guys are going to discuss a stupid game like baseball then I suggest a mod moves this thread to somewhere outside cc.
    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    Haha he even sent me a PM asking why I don't like Baseball and explaining what a beautiful game it is! This guy is the equivalent of the Christian missionaries visiting poor countries with the purpose to convert, lol.
    Isn't repeatedly hurling personal insults to the point some OP's might feel harassed pretty much the definition of being a troll? Not that I mind, but generally speaking "that isn't cricket" on most forums.


  5. #80
    State 12th Man NotMcKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodk View Post
    Isn't repeatedly hurling personal insults to the point some OP's might feel harassed pretty much the definition of being a troll?
    I'm being very pedantic, but no.
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  6. #81
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
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    This one was quite good. At least those Americans were genuine in their effort to understand and appreciate cricket.
    So, Cricket? Maybe?

  7. #82
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodk View Post
    I suppose that will suffice but I have two concerns.
    1. Stalling the game to force a draw when you are way behind does not come across as sporting and honorable. Presumably you play to win the game and you accept draws and losses if you have to while trying to win, but it seems an awful lot like soccer to just go out there, stall, and accept a draw ("Kissing your sister") when you have been outplayed and outscored.
    Pretty sure that's not a draw...
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  8. #83
    International Regular Victor Ian's Avatar
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    OK. You want what makes cricket different. In cricket the day ends, you talk about all the stuff that happened and then what might still happen. You check updated stats and play around with how much a player needs to reach a new milestone. Then you go to sleep. If you wake up you read news articles or you might leave that for your morning coffee. Then you wake up and it's day two.
    During a game you might have a BBQ, you might go to the beach. You'll most likely do shopping. You'll meet your mates at the bar. You might even go to the game live. You'll watch it on TV, at times, the radio at other times or follow it on the internet when out and about. You'll even play the game yourself in the backyard or the beach. And still the game goes on.

    Cricket is slowly digested. Baseball doesn't have a thing on test cricket.
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  9. #84
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    Harsh on baseball. Both very different yet great sports.

  10. #85
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    This one was quite good. At least those Americans were genuine in their effort to understand and appreciate cricket.
    So, Cricket? Maybe?
    The that article "The batters, it occurs to Mike, are basically all Ichiro — because they stand in the center of a circular playing field, bat control is of the essence. It can be just as valuable to barely flick the ball as it rushes toward you, sending it almost directly backwards, as it would be to swing as hard as you can and try to power it to your pull side or back up the middle. The batsmen have the same few tenths of a second to decide what to do as baseball players, but the range of things they have to be able to do is much greater. It’s kind of inspiring to watch it done well."

  11. #86
    International Regular Victor Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Harsh on baseball. Both very different yet great sports.
    Harsh? I was just highlighting that baseball, like practically every other sport is, is unlike test cricket which is an event that allows you to live normal life while it goes on. Baseball is a great sport in it's own way. The similarity ends at hold stick - hit ball. Trying to compare is like saying AFL is like soccer because they both kick a ball.

  12. #87
    International Regular Victor Ian's Avatar
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    I am really enjoying that article. This line cracked me up

    Another of the Pakistani fielders, Mohammad Hafeez, has zinc oxide all over his entire face, like he’s in whiteface. We are offended.
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  13. #88
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
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    Yes that article is really funny and well-written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    The that article "The batters, it occurs to Mike, are basically all Ichiro ... The batsmen have the same few tenths of a second to decide what to do as baseball players, but the range of things they have to be able to do is much greater. It’s kind of inspiring to watch it done well."
    I would disagree in part. Yes, cricket hitters can do more but that is because the sport is different and it invites them to do more.

    The bat is much bigger with a relatively huge flat sweet spot; the bowlers are much more limited than pitchers in their ability to deceive because they can't conceal the ball while delivering it, they are much further away when they release it offering batsman more time at the same velocity; they must tell batsmen what speed is coming at them, and they have tighter restrictions on where they are allowed to deliver it (not above the waist or wide as that creates penalties). Also, batsmen get to stand where they choose, forcing the bowlers' hands with respect to accessing the stumps. And batsmen get to defend without necessarily producing (or wanting to produce) any offense.

    Baseball hitters have restrictions as to where they can be, and because baseball is played on a heavily defended quadrant (rather than a relatively sparsely defended oval with lots of fielders under restrictions as to where they can begin a play under rules implemented to boost scores) hitters always have to change the momentum of the delivery and hope it finds a spot between fielders who have set themselves after thorough research of the hitter's tendencies. In most situations, they are required to produce offensively by hitting the ball into an open spot rather than simply stand in and exhaust the other side. The physics of doing all that are very limiting on the necessary skill set.

    I will concede that there are certain options bowlers have that pitchers do not, namely the opportunity to consistently weaponize a ball thrown at 50 mph or less by getting it to break sharply off the pitch. The physics of full toss are not as kind; slow pitches typically do not break. Slow is typically a weapon when it is used specifically as a decoy to fast, not on its own merit. (There are exceptions.)

    The upshot is that given the advantages pitchers have as opposed to bowlers when facing hitters, baseball offers very, very little opportunity for shotmaking, the centerpiece of cricket, and that's why you don't see it.

    For those who don't know, Ichiro is a retired MLB player from Japan who was very successful incorporating a limited number of shotmaking skills into his game. But his ability to do that was enhanced because he was very, very fast afoot in his heyday -- a skill that doesn't seem to have a lot of significance in cricket -- and he could get hits from the types of batted balls that most others could not. What worked for him would not work for other players with other talents or limitations.

    FWIW, women's softball also incorporates shotmaking techniques that might look common in cricket. Softball pitching is very consistently 60-65 mph. Pitchers can't snap their elbows in underhand deliveries that offer very little deception, and the ball is very large and luminescent green. All that allows many hitters (batswomen?) to step forward in or move across the hitting zone as the pitch comes in, and time their swings so as to slap the ball this way or that as their female cricket counterparts might. Part of the explanation lies in the fact the bases are much closer to each other than in baseball, and because women defenders can not throw the ball very quickly or very far, complicating the task of getting certain kinds of outs on batted balls.
    Last edited by rodk; 30-11-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  15. #90
    International Debutant srbhkshk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodk View Post
    The bat is much bigger with a relatively huge flat sweet spot; the bowlers are much more limited than pitchers in their ability to deceive because they can't conceal the ball while delivering it, they are much further away when they release it offering batsman more time at the same velocity; they must tell batsmen what speed is coming at them, and they have tighter restrictions on where they are allowed to deliver it (not above the waist or wide as that creates penalties). Also, batsmen get to stand where they choose, forcing the bowlers' hands with respect to accessing the stumps. Baseball hitters have restrictions as to where they can be, and because baseball is played on a heavily defended quadrant (rather than a relatively sparsely defended oval with lots of fielders under restrictions as to where they can begin a play under rules implemented to boost scores) hitters always have to change the momentum of the delivery and hope it finds a spot between fielders who have set themselves after thorough research of the hitter's tendencies. The physics of doing all that are very limiting on the necessary skill set.
    lol

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