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View Poll Results: Which is the 2nd best ODI side (behind Oz)?

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  • NZ

    13 34.21%
  • India

    11 28.95%
  • South Africa

    11 28.95%
  • Bangladesh (have bullied the other sides at home)

    2 5.26%
  • Other (please name)

    1 2.63%
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Thread: 2nd best ODI side?

  1. #136
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Mate, you win the WC you're entitled to be considered number one at this stage of the next cycle. Said the same thing after India won in 2011 and Australia (I think) was being touted as number one in the rankings in 2012. The WC is IT when it comes to ODIs, **** all else matters. Australia is rightly ranked one ATM, I'd have NZ second and India third. With there not being a whole lot between them.

    I mean, if Australia win the Bledisloe in 2016 (funny, I know) are they the number one side in the world when NZ won the WC eight months earlier? I would think not. You'd need to perform at a level where you're beating the WC winners for quite a while before you're considered to have rightly gone past them.
    This. I think a WC win kinda gives you a pass for 18-24 months. After that you're sort of building for the next WC at which point you want to be taking series seriously. Besides, KV seems to forget the real #1 ODI bowler Mitchell Starc (I know it's Boult in the rankings but Starc is simply better. No argument) was out plus a fairly decent opener who imo is worth way more than Bailey.

    I mean, really, most teams are winning their series at home in both Tests and ODIs, so things are pretty even in world cricket from #1-4/5/6 (depending on format) which is quite exciting. But I think Australia deserve the title after winning the WC and nearly winning here despite missing a few players (and yes we were missing a few too but we weren't when we lost that final).
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  2. #137
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    I reckon Starc is better than Boult in ODIs. I refer to Boult as the No. 1 bowler because that's his ranking. But if you asked who the 'best' ODI bowler was I would say Starc.

  3. #138
    Cricketer Of The Year Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    India are definitely way better chasing than they are defending.
    I understand most people will say that now because of the recent series where they failed to defend 290 plus totals thrice, but if you look at overall over the last 2 years, India has defended just fine.

    They defended pretty well in the World Cup, the two key games they won in the first round.
    And they defended against South Africa in the two games they won.

    Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

    Overall it's a pretty decent record.

    If their spinners are performing, India can defend 290 plus totals against most teams, other than perhaps Australia.
    Last edited by Black_Warrior; 09-02-2016 at 01:34 AM.
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  4. #139
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    I remember the thumping the All Blacks got against the Wallabies in Sydney in 1998. 28-7 or something like that. It was such a catastrophic loss that, in hindsight, it was a portent of a period of dominance that Australia would hold over New Zealand for about 4 or 5 years.

    The thumping at Eden Park in the first match of this series was similar. In that match, the traditional underdog got up, not just to beat their historical superior, but to cane them. Aussie was as completely shut out of that game as the ABs were in 1998.

    Because of this precedent, I expect the Black Caps to dominate Australia over the next World Cup cycle, culminating in a NZ CWC victory in 2019. Probably few people think the Black Caps are the No. 1 team in the world, but to me if you win a World Cup and then, a year later, with half your team different, you comfortably lose an ODI series, then your claim to still be No. 1 is pretty thin. The Aussie team of today is simply not the same team that won the CWC a year ago.

    That's not to claim the BCs are No. 1 necessarily. I think it's undisputed. But if the No. 1 ranking was a championship belt like boxing, the BCs would have just won it.

    Probably after that we will return to mediocrity for the next 20 years. But until then it's going to be a great ride.


  5. #140
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    ffs shut up between you and fiery it's no wonder brisbane happened
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  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiviktor81 View Post
    I remember the thumping the All Blacks got against the Wallabies in Sydney in 1998. 28-7 or something like that. It was such a catastrophic loss that, in hindsight, it was a portent of a period of dominance that Australia would hold over New Zealand for about 4 or 5 years.

    The thumping at Eden Park in the first match of this series was similar. In that match, the traditional underdog got up, not just to beat their historical superior, but to cane them. Aussie was as completely shut out of that game as the ABs were in 1998.

    Because of this precedent, I expect the Black Caps to dominate Australia over the next World Cup cycle, culminating in a NZ CWC victory in 2019. Probably few people think the Black Caps are the No. 1 team in the world, but to me if you win a World Cup and then, a year later, with half your team different, you comfortably lose an ODI series, then your claim to still be No. 1 is pretty thin. The Aussie team of today is simply not the same team that won the CWC a year ago.

    That's not to claim the BCs are No. 1 necessarily. I think it's undisputed. But if the No. 1 ranking was a championship belt like boxing, the BCs would have just won it.

    Probably after that we will return to mediocrity for the next 20 years. But until then it's going to be a great ride.
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  7. #142
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    ffs shut up between you and fiery it's no wonder brisbane happened
    I'll tell you why I'm looking forward to this Test series so much. It's because, for the past four years, NZ-Aussie series have so frequently been decided by home advantage (CWC final) or by a team getting ambushed (CWC 15 pool match) or being poorly prepared (NZ in Aussie just recently) or simply by luck in a low-scoring crapshoot (Hobart, Adelaide).

    I'm not sure that the BCs have as much of a home advantage in this case because our wickets are more sporting and not prepared specifically for the strengths and weaknesses of our team. In any case, the ambush factor is zero, as Aussie have already copped it in the ODI series. The poorly prepared factor is zero, as Aussie have already played an ODI series here. The luck factor, who knows. I hope this series isn't decided on luck.

  8. #143
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Also, there's frankly a huge degree of uncertainty over how good Aussie actually is, now that there are so many different players. The commentators this series said that the highest wicket taker in the Aussie team was Steve Smith, and the next highest was Glenn Maxwell. With that much inexperience it's simply not possible to say with any confidence how good the team is on paper. Results must necessarily factor much more heavily.

  9. #144
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Ahhh KV. C'mon man, why always so much hyperbole? Seriously now.

  10. #145
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    everyone has a home ground advantage except NZ. This is novel.

  11. #146
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Ahhh KV. C'mon man, why always so much hyperbole? Seriously now.
    What hyperbole? I'm contending two things:

    1. This Test series will be as fair, meaningful and decisive as any series between Aussie and NZ, ODIs or otherwise, have been for a while, and
    2. There are a huge number of question marks about this Aussie side. They may be world champions. They may be mediocre. Given their history you'd tend to side with the "world champions" possibility, but there is a very real chance that Aussie could be seriously exposed in this series, as they were in the ODI series. We don't really know how good Starc is in Tests. We don't really know if Steve Smith can cope with lateral movement. There's frankly a lot of things we don't know, and I'm looking forward to finding out.
    Last edited by kiwiviktor81; 09-02-2016 at 04:02 AM.

  12. #147
    International Debutant kiwiviktor81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    everyone has a home ground advantage except NZ. This is novel.
    I didn't say we have no home advantage. I said we have sporting wickets.

  13. #148
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiviktor81 View Post
    What hyperbole? I'm contending two things:

    1. This Test series will be as fair, meaningful and decisive as any series between Aussie and NZ, ODIs or otherwise, have been for a while, and
    2. There are a huge number of question marks about this Aussie side. They may be world champions. They may be mediocre. Given their history you'd tend to side with the "world champions" possibility, but there is a very real chance that Aussie could be seriously exposed in this series, as they were in the ODI series. We don't really know how good Starc is in Tests. We don't really know if Steve Smith can cope with lateral movement. There's frankly a lot of things we don't know, and I'm looking forward to finding out.
    Just you're overstating it, they could have so easily won that game and the series yesterday and then they'd be one of the few teams to beat NZ at home in recent times. Only SA have done it in the last 4 years or so. All this when they're missing arguably their 2 best ODI cricketers in Starc and Faulkner and anyone could see they should have selected Khawaja in the first game.

  14. #149
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiviktor81 View Post
    I didn't say we have no home advantage. I said we have sporting wickets.
    But the consensus is Australia can't bat on sporting wickets. Ergo, advantage NZ.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiviktor81 View Post
    I didn't say we have no home advantage. I said we have sporting wickets.
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