England Squad Selection

[Greg Blewett]

hehehehe..thats the problem...there isnt really

are dean or hutichinson any good?!

i have a british passport maybe i should go and bowl for them

 

[Neil Pickup]

Maybe because...

1/ Most of the games he's played have been against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe
2/ Your whole bowling attack is terrible and having the best bowling average is nothing to be excited about

1/ How does that affect his performance being better than the other bowlers in those games
2/ Williams, Bracken, Lee... plus I don't see the point in dropping the best performer.

 

[a massive zebra]

Sometimes when one bowler is bowling well and the other crap, the batsmen just try to see off the better bowler and make up for this by hitting the worse bowler for runs. This attitude often results in the worse bowler taking the wickets with long-hops as the batsmen throw caution to the wind. The best example of this is probably Willis - Botham. The former usually bowled better while the latter often got more wickets (often with dreadfull balls).

This could explain why Harmison hasn't done disgracefully, although his record in tests excluding Bangladesh and Zimbabwe is 23 wickets at 42.95 in 9 matches.

 

[marc71178]

1/ Most of the games he's played have been against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe

Incorrect

2/ Your whole bowling attack is terrible and having the best bowling average is nothing to be excited about

Negates point 1.

 

[marc71178]

i Dont know why Kabir was not included in ANY of the squad a bit Crap really

I don't think the selectors or Vaughan rate him (Vaughan made that very evident!)

Also, they're not tainted by Worcestershire bias.

 

[Richard]

And they prefer Harmison to him.
Says something about the mistaken mentality in selection ATM...

 

[Richard]

are dean or hutichinson any good?!

Yes, both good.
Hutchison has never really realised his potential, and Dean would almost undoubtedly have played for England if he hadn't been injured as much as he had.
Both have had their problems with inconsistency in their own ways, though.

 

[Richard]

That would be an idea, they have started to do similar things in South Africa... Unfortunatly there were disputes there, and deep set tradition will stop any of that kind of stuff happening in the UK....

Just a shame it didn't stop it happening in South Africa.
Sadly they don't seem to have a sense of tradition importance.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: England Squad Selection

heres another one of those guys who judges players by looking at the scorecard. if u think bicknell is a good bowler u shouldnt be watching cricket anymore. he bowls 70mph(slower than a few spin bowlers) and the only reason he got wickets against SA was because he was playing on a headingly wicket that was swinging all over the place. do u really believe that someone bowling at that pace on a placcid wicket in the west indies is going to be a success???and then dont forget his age...what is he 34-35?do u think someone like him will be able to take the baton from the goughs and caddicks and represent englands future??

70 mph is certainly faster than any spinner's stock-ball, even the quickest ones like Dharmasena and Kumble. That's a ludicrous statement.
Do you really believe that just bowling 90 mph on a placid wicket will achiece any more success than bowling 70 with swing?
If you think Bicknell isn't a good bowler then, quite frankly, you are the one who shouldn't be watching cricket any more. Bicknell is a fantastic bowler and has been for God knows how long. And another ludicrous statement is "the wicket was swinging all over the place". Sorry, but the wicket doesn't swing - yes, it seamed all over the place, but he got better figures at The Oval than at Headingley. He got them on a placid wicket very similar to those we are likely to encounter in West Indies.
Do you think somoene like Harmison will be able to take the baton from the Goughs, Caddicks and Corks? Because ATM I most certainly don't.

as much of a success as kirtley has had in the national side i must admit that when u watch him bowl he just doesnt look good. the only reasons he picked up the 5er was because he was bowling on a up and down pitch where batting was very difficult. i find it hard to see him getting wickets in the west indies where there is no assistance whatsoever for the bowlers. further his pace will not pose any problems against the lara,chanderpaul,sarwan or gayle and from what i have seen he is not angus fraser like accurate.

Another one who judges players by looking at the scorecard? So you now know better than the game itself? The hypocrisy really is amazing.
There is no better judge of the game than the game itself.

 

[Swervy]

Just a shame it didn't stop it happening in South Africa.
Sadly they don't seem to have a sense of tradition importance.

but if a sense of tradition is going to stop progress of the England cricket team, then you are buggered arent you.

Everyone would like to see all 18 counties playing etc, but I think as time goes on this is not a viable structure.2 divisions went part of the way,but not nearly enough...talent is diluted far too much in England,too many Jon dakins flying around in my opinion..too many average players playing too much against other average players....its time for the good players to be playing against the other good players, weed out mediocrity.

County cricket is not intense enough,not only because of too many average players, but because there are too many games. Sydney grade cricket is probably tougher than division 2 championship stuff.

Players need to know that if they arent pushing for an England place, or dont have the potential, then they arent welcome earning a living from the game....if that isnt an incentive for continual improvement I dont know what is.

this aint the 19th century, the county game is still pretty much stuck way back then.....its great that something like the 20/20 thing has come along and re-newed interest in the domestic game, but a hell of a lot needs to be done with the first class game, before England start challenging for top dog position (it has been 50 years since England could lay claim to that position, does this not indicate that tradition is not working)

 

[twctopcat]

Re: Re: England Squad Selection

as much of a success as kirtley has had in the national side i must admit that when u watch him bowl he just doesnt look good. the only reasons he picked up the 5er was because he was bowling on a up and down pitch where batting was very difficult. i find it hard to see him getting wickets in the west indies where there is no assistance whatsoever for the bowlers. further his pace will not pose any problems against the lara,chanderpaul,sarwan or gayle and from what i have seen he is not angus fraser like accurate.

Hmmm, on the contrary although Kirtley got his wickets on a dog of a pitch but you have to remember that he has been getting a lot of wickets year in year out on a sussex pitch that is renowned for its lack of variation that it gives to it's quickies. This is one of the reasons he has gone to the west indies. His pace on it's own will not affect lara for sure but as shown in the recent test vs s.africa, a lot of the windies batsmen showed a distinct lack of discipline against the likes of nel and ntini which could be exposed.

 

[Langeveldt]

Just a shame it didn't stop it happening in South Africa.
Sadly they don't seem to have a sense of tradition importance.

Tradition is definitely more apparent in England... I couldnt for the life of me imagine what would happen if Somerset and Glamorgan merged... in effect they are two mediocre counties who need to merge, but it will never happen...

I dont see why they needed any sort of revolution in South Africa... There are nine geographical provinces, and not many matches played... Isnt that ideal??

 

[marc71178]

Re: Re: Re: England Squad Selection

There is no better judge of the game than the game itself.

Excpet when it shows a player you dislike to be a good performer.

 

[Richard]

but if a sense of tradition is going to stop progress of the England cricket team, then you are buggered arent you.

Everyone would like to see all 18 counties playing etc, but I think as time goes on this is not a viable structure.2 divisions went part of the way,but not nearly enough...talent is diluted far too much in England,too many Jon dakins flying around in my opinion..too many average players playing too much against other average players....its time for the good players to be playing against the other good players, weed out mediocrity.

County cricket is not intense enough,not only because of too many average players, but because there are too many games. Sydney grade cricket is probably tougher than division 2 championship stuff.

Players need to know that if they arent pushing for an England place, or dont have the potential, then they arent welcome earning a living from the game....if that isnt an incentive for continual improvement I dont know what is.

this aint the 19th century, the county game is still pretty much stuck way back then.....its great that something like the 20/20 thing has come along and re-newed interest in the domestic game, but a hell of a lot needs to be done with the first class game, before England start challenging for top dog position (it has been 50 years since England could lay claim to that position, does this not indicate that tradition is not working)

This all totally misinterprets the sitution.
England's population is now bigger than it used to be. Hence, laws of numbers dictate that there is enough quality, as there always has been.
No-one can possibly be pushing for a place in the England team. That's totally unrealistic, doesn't happen anywhere, and the fact is players outside the small few who can challenge for international places must simply be as good as they can.
This is the problem; not anywhere near enough are.
Jon Dakin, meanwhile, is a quality player as he has demonstrated by some of his performances. Quite possibly, he is an example of someone who could be better with more practice.
So, county cricket in it's state doesn't stop the progress of the England team - the typical attitude of it's run-of-the-mill players does.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: England Squad Selection

Excpet when it shows a player you dislike to be a good performer.

Are you ever going to give this up?
The things on which I judge players are part of the game, believe it or not.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: England Squad Selection

I dont see why they needed any sort of revolution in South Africa... There are nine geographical provinces, and not many matches played... Isnt that ideal??

Yes, and South African cricket now is as strong as it has ever been.

 

[Swervy]

This all totally misinterprets the sitution.
England's population is now bigger than it used to be. Hence, laws of numbers dictate that there is enough quality, as there always has been.
No-one can possibly be pushing for a place in the England team. That's totally unrealistic, doesn't happen anywhere, and the fact is players outside the small few who can challenge for international places must simply be as good as they can.
This is the problem; not anywhere near enough are.
Jon Dakin, meanwhile, is a quality player as he has demonstrated by some of his performances. Quite possibly, he is an example of someone who could be better with more practice.
So, county cricket in it's state doesn't stop the progress of the England team - the typical attitude of it's run-of-the-mill players does.

jon dakin is a quality player, but Glen mcgrath is a lucky bowler....you do have some strange views

Yes the population has increased..although relatively slightly over the last 50 years...so yes there will be statistically a slightly larger number of people with a talent for the game, but obviuosly the talent isnt getting through..and one of the reasons is beacuse of a lack of interest by younger people in the game...the domestic game needs to look at ways to attrract those people..and I am afraid 18 teams 70% filled with jon Dakin's is not going to attract the kids.

 

[Richard]

Have I ever said Dakin is better than McGrath?
Well, he's a better batsman I suppose.
Nor, in the 70s, did games involving quality such as Garner, Richards (IVA), Sobers, Marshall, Richards (B) and the like attract the crowds.
Getting the players into the game is the responsibility of the grassroots stuff, not the county game to attract them to watch.

 

[Swervy]

Have I ever said Dakin is better than McGrath?
Well, he's a better batsman I suppose.
Nor, in the 70s, did games involving quality such as Garner, Richards (IVA), Sobers, Marshall, Richards (B) and the like attract the crowds.
Getting the players into the game is the responsibility of the grassroots stuff, not the county game to attract them to watch.

its not the sole responsibilty of the county game..but it does have some role.

Hahaha..I never said you said that Dakin is better than McGrath, its just that you described Dakin as 'quality' and you have frequently suggested that McGrath is lucky (and by implication,not 'quality')..i was just being picky

 

[Neil Pickup]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: England Squad Selection

Are you ever going to give this up?
The things on which I judge players are part of the game, believe it or not.

You two never give anything up..!