First Name on the Team Sheet

[GIMH]

A thread where you think back as far as you can remember, decide who was the most important player your side had, who was being the guy you bank on to win you the game. Then decide when the mantle passed to someone else, and so on.

England

Up to summer of 2006: Flintoff
Summer 06 - India tour 08: Pietersen
India tour 08- Ashes 09: Strauss
South Africa 09 - 2010 Ashes: Swann
2011- 13 Ashes: Cook
Middle of 2013: Anderson
2014 summer - 15 Ashes: Root
2015 Ashes on: Broad

Tried to be a contrarian but really can't find fault with this. Damn you Zat

 

[Zinzan]

NZ

1990-1995: Crowe
1996-2002: Cairns
2002-2007: Bond
2007-2008: Fleming
2008-2011: Vettori
2011-2012: Taylor
2013-2014: Southee
2014-2025: Williamson

No. Taylor > Southee in 2013

 

[Jarquis]

Tried to be a contrarian but really can't find fault with this. Damn you Zat

Would Prior have ever gone close? The alternatives were rather quite **** for a while

 

[Howe_zat]

Would Prior have ever gone close? The alternatives were rather quite **** for a while

Would have come close around India 2012, but Cook was the new Tendulkar at the time

 

[honestbharani]

Windies?


Probably 92 to 2007 - Lara
2007 to 2014 - Chanders
2014 to present day - Bravo??

 

[cnerd123]

Sammy was really important when he was captain, and now its Holder. Sammy basically held the side together when he played, and Holder is their best player now.

 

[AndrewB]

A thread where you think back as far as you can remember, decide who was the most important player your side had, who was being the guy you bank on to win you the game. Then decide when the mantle passed to someone else, and so on.

England

Up to summer of 2006: Flintoff
Summer 06 - India tour 08: Pietersen
India tour 08- Ashes 09: Strauss
South Africa 09 - 2010 Ashes: Swann
2011- 13 Ashes: Cook
Middle of 2013: Anderson
2014 summer - 15 Ashes: Root
2015 Ashes on: Broad

Extending this back a bit:

1978-82: Botham
1982-84: Willis
1984 in Pakistan: Gower
1984 summer: nobody
1985-87: Gatting
1987-88: Dilley
1989: Robin Smith (not that we actually won any games, but it wasn't his fault)
1990-93: Gooch
1993-95: Atherton

after which it gets tricky, as there were several years of erratic mediocrity in which no-one managed to stand out for long:

1995: Cork
1996: Stewart
1997: Thorpe
1998: Fraser
1999: Hussain
2000-01: Gough
2002-03: Vaughan
2003-04: Harmison
2004-06: Flintoff...

 

[Bahnz]

No. Taylor > Southee in 2013

Nah.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

1993-95: Atherton

Nah mate.

 

[AndrewB]

For some reason I was thinking Atherton's 185* was in the 1993-5 spell. Not that anyone's obviously ahead of Atherton over that time, but nor does he really stand out.

 

[Victor Ian]

Gonna go backwards with Australia without looking at dates….

Smith
Warner
Johnson/Clarke
Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne/McGrath/Ponting
Waugh

then going back further...

Border
Greg Ritchie (brief shining light like when you flick the light on and the globe immediately breaks)
Border

 

[CapeTown Guy]

South Africa

1992-1999ish Donald
2000-2002 Pollock
2003-2014 Kallis
2015-AB

Seems a bit odd not to have Steyn in there, but Kallis really remained the first name on the team sheet throughout Dale's career until retirement. He just added such balance to the team.

 

[91Jmay]

Agree with that, but would have Steyn from 2015.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hmm, I dunno, I'd definitely have Steyn as the top guy for SA since about 2008. Kallis was probably more valuable to the side in a strictly conventional sense, but Steyn was the one who always feels like the top dog imo. The leader of the pace attack always feels like the most important component. Imo for SA, it's:

90s: Donald
Early 2000s: Pollock
2003-2007: Kallis
2008-2011: Steyn
2012-2014: Amla/Steyn
2015- current : AB

 

[vcs]

Agreed. Put another way, imagine how good India would have been between 2007 and 2011 with that batting lineup if they also had a quick of Steyn's quality. Would have won a lot of series that they drew/narrowly lost. Swapping Sachin or Dravid for Kallis wouldn't have made such a huge difference.

 

[91Jmay]

Agreed. Put another way, imagine how good India would have been between 2007 and 2011 with that batting lineup if they also had a quick of Steyn's quality. Would have won a lot of series that they drew/narrowly lost. Swapping Sachin or Dravid for Kallis wouldn't have made such a huge difference.

That feels like a very specific example that doesn't prove much.

Imagine how great Australia would have been over the last few years with a batsmen like Kallis, compared with adding Steyn which doesn't give them that much extra.

 

[vcs]

True, I guess that's where country bias comes in. England and Australia are pretty well-stocked with quality fast bowlers compared to India.

They both have a pretty good case. But you need bowlers to win you Test matches. Australia had Clarke performing at roughly that level for a few years, and then Smith took over when he dropped off. Obviously having Kallis as well would have helped. But Steyn might have helped Australia win in India, UAE, maybe even in England. He'd definitely have improved Australia significantly.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That feels like a very specific example that doesn't prove much.

Imagine how great Australia would have been over the last few years with a batsmen like Kallis, compared with adding Steyn which doesn't give them that much extra.

I think his point may have been that SA did have lots of other great batsmen towards the mid-late 2000s which made his primary discipline a little less important. Take Steyn out of SA in that period and they don't get to number 1 imo. Kallis' bowling was hugely valuable and the balance he provided the team was immense but balance without a bowling spearhead wouldn't have made that SA team what it was.

 

[91Jmay]

I think his point may have been that SA did have lots of other great batsmen towards the mid-late 2000s which made his primary discipline a little less important. Take Steyn out of SA in that period and they don't get to number 1 imo. Kallis' bowling was hugely valuable and the balance he provided the team was immense but balance without a bowling spearhead wouldn't have made that SA team what it was.

Yeah that is true, I'd probably go with your breakdown considering what Steyn did on flat pitches that basically no one else can do.

 

[StephenZA]

Not looking at form but importance to the team.
90s: Donald
Late 90s/ early 2000s: Pollock
2000-2007: Kallis
2008-2010: Kallis/Steyn
2010-current: Amla/Steyn

Controversially no AB, yes his form has been brilliant for the last couple of years but I truly do think that Amla acting as a rock at 3 took pressure off AB. The recent results show how important both Amla and Steyn are, without them SA are losing even with a devastating inform AB. In ODI team a totally different story.

An honorable mention for G.Smith who was invaluable as a captain and opener. His loss was greater than Kallis at the time as it was unexpected and created a huge vacuum at top of order.