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Malcolm Marshall vs Viv Richards: Who's the greater cricketer?

The greater cricketer


  • Total voters
    38

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
People bringing ODI's into discussion when the OP specifically not mentioning that they should
"specifically not mentioning that they should"?

What does that even mean?
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Sure, I'd almost buy that re: McGrath. But there must be at least 20 batsman who you could make a reasonable argument for being equal or better than Viv.
There are a fair few quicks you could argue are roughly the equal of Marshall though.

Hadlee, Ambrose, Holding, Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Lillee, McGrath, Trueman, Steyn, Donald….
 

OverratedSanity

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If Tendulkar is there Kallis/Ponting have to be then.
If they have to be up there, then why not Gavaskar up there with Viv? Or Sutcliffe with Hobbs? Or Barrington up there with Sobers. Rightly or wrongly they just aren't mentioned in the same breath.
 

OverratedSanity

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Had to vote for Marshall because he was the best quick of all time, whereas Richards, as good as he may have been, wasn't the best batsman (even if you exclude Bradman).
Sure, I'd almost buy that re: McGrath. But there must be at least 20 batsman who you could make a reasonable argument for being equal or better than Viv.
Don't know about 20.

Tendulkar
Lara
Sobers
Hobbs

If pushed, would add probably
Hutton
Chappell

But that's about it.
There are just as many contenders for best bowler as there are for batsman. Hadlee, Imran, McGrath, Steyn,are the ones I'd put right up there with Marshall. That's not even counting spinners like Murali, Warne and O'Reilly.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
But Gavaskar wasn't as good as Viv and Ponting is better than Tendulkar (and is always mentioned with him) so that comparison doesn't really work.
 

OverratedSanity

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I don't have a problem with Ponting at all. Glad you backed down with that Kallis nonsense though. Mission accomplished :p
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
There are a fair few quicks you could argue are roughly the equal of Marshall though.

Hadlee, Ambrose, Holding, Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Lillee, McGrath, Trueman, Steyn, Donald….
Definitely not Ambrose, Holding, Waqar, Wasim, Lillee, Trueman or Donald in my opinion. All have significant (in relation to being the greatest ever, not ATG or top 10 etc) questions or spots on their records.

McGrath comes closest, but Marshall could just beat you in many more ways and had more weapons at his disposal. The other candidate was Hadlee and they played in the same era and Marshall was just seven as being the best of that era, including over Hadlee.
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Some previous posts related to the subject.

Just as successful home and away. Dominated every app on en in every condition. Could bounce you out or swing you out depending on conditions. Lost one match as an opening bowler in his career despite constant retirements and severe drop off of form from Richards and Co later in their career. No matter the changes in the team, while he was there they were the best. When he came in they were a great team, he made them.the best ever, and this was after Richards absolute peak and after Holding and Roberts etc retired.*

The absolute peak of greatness of the West Indies team was when he was the spearhead.

From '83 / '84 he was the fastest bowler in the world and went to India on unresponsive pitches and proved it.*

There was nothing he couldn't do. Contain, attack, extreme pace, banana swing, pace variations etc.*

His strike rate was phenomenal, as was his average and economy rate. He had a brilliant cricketing brain and primarily set his own fields.*

No one dominated him. They were some great batsmen in his era, and they were hundreds scored against the team, but no one ever dominated him. No series when anyone took him apart.*

They were no minnows in his era, no easy wickets. But his record doest suffer for it.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Marshall's record is just so special that I can't accept Viv, as great and game changing as he was, as being better.

376 Wickets @ 20.94 and a strike rate of 46.7 is just so crazy good.
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Border, Miandad, Gooch, Gavaskar, Crowe. Lots of solid test players as well. Maco faced some decent bats himself.

What Marshall did to India in '83 on some incredibly flat roads was awe inspiring. His record is spotless, he was ATG everywhere and vs everyone.*

As an opening bowler he averaged 5 WPM, he overall number some what tarnished by his series during WSC when he was no where near ready. It was Marshall who in the '80's, during the retirements of Lloyd, Holding, Roberts, the multiple injuries of Holding and the loss of form by Richards and Greenidge, that held the W.I together and pushed them to be the Greatest Test Team Ever.

Look at his scalp list, it's filled with the best of his, and any era. He, to steal a cliche, possessed all of the tools and knew when and how to use them. He was genuine express, taking the mantle of the Worlds fastest by '83. He could swing the ball either way with no discernible change of action. He was aggressive, he could change speeds when required and could exploit any condition.

For me, Malcolm Denzil Marshall was one of the top 3 Test Players in the history of the game, and the order in which they fall isn't set in stone. That is how high I rate the great man.

So yes, for me Marshall is still No. 1 and as great as Steyn is, and he is ATG, he just isn't Maco.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Has to be Viv. Of all i have seen probably only peak Ponting comes close to the way he played quick bowling. Stood up under pressure and would club the opposition into submission. Also gets higher marks than Marshall in longevity
 

indiaholic

International Captain
Has to be Viv. Of all i have seen probably only peak Ponting comes close to the way he played quick bowling. Stood up under pressure and would club the opposition into submission. Also gets higher marks than Marshall in longevity
What? You are comparing the longevity of a guy who stands around waving a stick to an actual athlete?
 

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
He could swing the ball either way with no discernible change of action.
He could also get a ball to move two ways in one delivery, usually swinging in and seaming away. The only other guy I've seen who could do that with any regularity was Wasim Akram, and he was nowhere near as consistent as Marshall.
 

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