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Simon Jones Sent Home

Rich2001

International Captain
Simon Jones has done enough to convince the England A management that he is fit and raring to go, and is likely to be wrapped in cotton wool and sent home - straight into the squad for the tour of West Indies.

Rod Marsh, England A's coach, is suggesting that Jones isn't risked in any more matches in India. "Assuming the other selectors agree with me, we will leave the decision to Simon," Marsh explained. "He's not had much match practice since he came back and may want another four days on the park. It's down to him."

England A face some gruelling travelling in the next few days, in particular an eight-hour train journey between Delhi and Amritsar. Marsh is determined to ensure that Jones's fitness is not compromised by the punishing itinerary.

Marsh has summoned Yorkshire pace bowler Steve Kirby from Madras, where he has been in the academy there, training with Dennis Lillee at the MRF Pace Foundation. Lillee is reported to be impressed with Kirby's pace, and that is good enough for his former team-mate Marsh.
Ok I want to see S.Jones back in the England set up but isn't this a bit early to be saying he is back to his best after just a few games and he will now tour the West Indies (Marc - Saggers was firing for 2 seasons and not given a go ;) Jones comes back and stright in there, so unfair :D )

He has played only a handfull of games from his return and impressed in a couple of those, now he is being made to stop getting match pratices and match fit by being made to rest, now I may be wrong but the guy just just spent the last 10 months resting, I can understand they want to keep him fit and not over do it but at this stage Jones needs to get as many matches under his belt if he wants to last a Test match and bowling to Lara etc.

If Jones gets a injury in his first game for England they will claim he is unfit, if he stays in India and gets a injury they will claim he was made to do to much... So I guess it's a no win situation :(
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
i dont know what everyone else thinks but mahmood has been more impressive than jones. jones got 10 wickets against a TN side that wasnt very impressive and he just got hammered 3.5 overs for 34. maybe he still isnt at his best
 

Swervy

International Captain
give mahmood a bit more time...jones has shown he CAN play at international standard
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Swervy said:
give mahmood a bit more time...jones has shown he CAN play at international standard
No, he's played two international games.
He hasn't shown he can play to international standard, not by a long chalk.
Mahmood, of course, hasn't even shown he can bowl to county standard.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
tooextracool said:
i dont know what everyone else thinks but mahmood has been more impressive than jones. jones got 10 wickets against a TN side that wasnt very impressive and he just got hammered 3.5 overs for 34. maybe he still isnt at his best
And in the same games Mahmood has done...?
 

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
No, he's played two international games.
He hasn't shown he can play to international standard, not by a long chalk.
Mahmood, of course, hasn't even shown he can bowl to county standard.
by what i said I meant that he has shown that he can trouble world class players already even in his very very short test career. I know he needs to prove it over longer period, but he looks to me the kind of player who can succeed.

Mahmood has shown he can bowl to county standard..trust me, I have seen him a bit and he is going to be a success at county level.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Maybe he will.
The fact is, however, his county average shows that he has not shown the ability to bowl to county standard! Very, very rarely has a bowler bowled better than his average (however frequently many bowl worse than their average suggests).
Jones, meanwhile, has created these chances (5 out of 6 taken) in his Test-career:
Tendulkar - played down the wrong line of a straight ball, went to slip.
Ratra - wafted at a very, very short, very wide delivery.
Agarkar - played inside the line of a straight ball, edged it to slip.
Sehwag - missed a straight delivery, played outside the line (not, as everyone was so desperate to suggest, played late).
Laxman - drove an overpitched ball to gully in the air.
Langer - played inside the line of a straight ball, nicked it.
This does not suggest to me that he can trouble the best. Because to seriously trouble someone, you have to get them out. However uncomfortable they look, unless you get them out to a good ball, you've done nothing of any real use.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Richard said:
Because to seriously trouble someone, you have to get them out. However uncomfortable they look, unless you get them out to a good ball, you've done nothing of any real use.
Ridiculous. Once more the fact that cricketers are human eludes you.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm not saying I expect them to ensure he doesn't get a single wicket - that would be ridiculous.
But if he ends-up with good figures against his name I'll know almost for certain WI have underperformed (I won't even need to recall what I've watched), or just had a strange spate of playing all the poor strokes (that they will inevitably play - because they are human) against him. Unless his bowling has changed in the last 2 months.
 
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Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
I'm not saying I expect them to ensure he doesn't get a single wicket - that would be ridiculous.
But if he ends-up with good figures against his name I'll know WI have underperformed (I won't even need to recall what I've watched), or just had a strange spate of playing all the poor strokes (that they will inevitably play - because they are human) against him.
...and none of it will be down to good bowling...because he has a poor domestic average....complete and utter tripe.

I dont think I was the only one who was impressed by how he bowled vs India and breifly vs Australia...he showed signs that he has a bit about him
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
But if he ends-up with good figures against his name I'll know WI have underperformed
Because yet again, it's a player you don't like, so it's impossible for him to perform well.

Are there any players whose success is meritted in your eyes?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
Because yet again, it's a player you don't like, so it's impossible for him to perform well.
Is this ridiculous repetition of this faulted theorem the only straw at which you have left to clutch?
If Harmison bowls well, I'll give him full credit - I've never said he doesn't have potential. But he has never looked like realising it so far in his career.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Swervy said:
...and none of it will be down to good bowling...because he has a poor domestic average....complete and utter tripe.

I dont think I was the only one who was impressed by how he bowled vs India and breifly vs Australia...he showed signs that he has a bit about him
No, you weren't - and the lot of you were impressed by the wrong things.
The old "bit about him" is simply something used by those who cannot think of a reason why someone they want to believe is good is so.
So in conclusion, what was so impressive about his bowling v Ind and Aus? The fact that he "built pressure" maybe? Well, he's was supposedly doing the same for most of the last 4 innings of the South Africa series, and only in the final innings did he actually get the wickets he supposedly deserved.
And let's wait and see what happens in WI.
 

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
No, you weren't - and the lot of you were impressed by the wrong things.
The old "bit about him" is simply something used by those who cannot think of a reason why someone they want to believe is good is so.
So in conclusion, what was so impressive about his bowling v Ind and Aus? The fact that he "built pressure" maybe? Well, he's was supposedly doing the same for most of the last 4 innings of the South Africa series, and only in the final innings did he actually get the wickets he supposedly deserved.
And let's wait and see what happens in WI.
we were all impressed by the wrong things...mmmm...we are all wrong..and that goes for Mr Benaud,Mr Atherton etc.....crazy talk.

Sometimes a bowler just looks like he has the ability to have a great future in the game. I was impressed by his pace and bounce and the fact that he did seem to trouble the batsman...great start as far as I can see to a possible test career.

Why do you think I want to beleive he is a good bowler, I dont even support England....i just happen to think he looks like the type of bowler who can have a successful career.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I've never said anything of the sort.
I've said he never has in his Test-career so far, and I've said I don't think anything will change in West Indies, but I've never said it can't.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Swervy said:
we were all impressed by the wrong things...mmmm...we are all wrong..and that goes for Mr Benaud,Mr Atherton etc.....crazy talk.

Sometimes a bowler just looks like he has the ability to have a great future in the game. I was impressed by his pace and bounce and the fact that he did seem to trouble the batsman...great start as far as I can see to a possible test career.

Why do you think I want to beleive he is a good bowler, I dont even support England....i just happen to think he looks like the type of bowler who can have a successful career.
Whoever you support the tendency to want young, quick bowlers to have success tends to be a constant.
Tends to, not invariably is.
Yes, though, I do think you, Richie, Athers and co. judge bowlers on the wrong thing. Believe it or not, I do have the nerve to think that you don't have to have watched cricket for vast numbers of years, or played it to an exceptional standard, to be a good analyst of it.
Personally just bowling with 90 mph pace and getting bounce doesn't impress me in the slightest as far as Test-cricket is concerned. It's a useful extra, but it's the least important of the three virtues.
 

twctopcat

International Regular
Richard said:
.
Yes, though, I do think you, Richie, Athers and co. judge bowlers on the wrong thing. Believe it or not, I do have the nerve to think that you don't have to have watched cricket for vast numbers of years, or played it to an exceptional standard, to be a good analyst of it.
Well you're wrong there, IMO the ability to analyse comes from the experience of having seen and perhaps even been part of similar situations that one is analysing. Hence the reason joe public like me (and you) don't work at the ECB and prob never will.To think otherwise is really very narrow minded and obtuse.
 

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