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NZ's future pace attack, the players, the coaches...

thundaboult

International Debutant
2015 is almost at an end. And what a year it was....

But I made this thread regarding the future of the New Zealand pace attack.....it seems that at the end of 2015, we now believe in things we would'n't have thought too possible in early 2015. Some things have changed...for example, Boult is now an accomplished ODI bowler, something we did not see coming in early 2015, we knew he had potential, but it was uncharted territory. Matt Henry on the other hand, has fallen off, he is now a mere shell of what he was in early 2015. Mcclenaghan is out of juice. One could argue that the absence of Bond himself has got a correlation in the direct downfall of henry and mcclenaghan, both have lost the promise they had in early 2015. Mcclenaghan the wickets, and with Henry the potential.

And now that brings me to the final subject, Adam Milne. He had a good comeback in the African tour, but is the absence of Bond going to hurt his development as well? Lets hope not because we knew what a weapon bondy has proven to be for our bowlers in the last 3 years. Dimitri Masakreahiafbufbweub has not shown anything worthy of keeping his spot and NZ must find a new bowling coach unless they want to stick to the results their bowlers have gotten post WC2015.

Thoughts on where to go from here?
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
2015 is almost at an end. And what a year it was....

But I made this thread regarding the future of the New Zealand pace attack.....it seems that at the end of 2015, we now believe in things we would'n't have thought too possible in early 2015. Some things have changed...for example, Boult is now an accomplished ODI bowler, something we did not see coming in early 2015, we knew he had potential, but it was uncharted territory. Matt Henry on the other hand, has fallen off, he is now a mere shell of what he was in early 2015. Mcclenaghan is out of juice. One could argue that the absence of Bond himself has got a correlation in the direct downfall of henry and mcclenaghan, both have lost the promise they had in early 2015. Mcclenaghan the wickets, and with Henry the potential.

And now that brings me to the final subject, Adam Milne. He had a good comeback in the African tour, but is the absence of Bond going to hurt his development as well? Lets hope not because we knew what a weapon bondy has proven to be for our bowlers in the last 3 years. Dimitri Masakreahiafbufbweub has not shown anything worthy of keeping his spot and NZ must find a new bowling coach unless they want to stick to the results their bowlers have gotten post WC2015.

Thoughts on where to go from here?
Don't do anything. Just hope that

a) someone else comes along
b) Bracewell gets his swing back
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
One could argue that the absence of Bond himself has got a correlation in the direct downfall of henry and mcclenaghan, both have lost the promise they had in early 2015. Mcclenaghan the wickets, and with Henry the potential.
It's hard to speculate on these things as mere plebs tbh, but there's the guy Bond would be the closest to calling his protege in 2015/16, if you want to follow the Canterbury scorecards. Ed Nuttall -

 
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Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
New Zealand's success over the last few years has been built on skilled and consistently good seam/swing bowling rather than 150k+ MJ clones blowing away teams. I have seen this sort of sentiment expressed in the NZ-Aus thread and I think it's kinda missing how the success was achieved.

I think Bracewell and Wagner can be decent support bowlers and should be persisted with. For the upcoming home series, NZ should just focus on their strengths and they used so well in this series Results | Global | ESPN Cricinfo rather than trying to look for the next Starc or Johnson.

Yes Milne has potential but he should have a good injury free FC season under his belt before he can be trusted as a test bowler.
 

Flem274*

123/5
We get one or two 150kph guys with every generation. Milne is likely to be a star. Easy to forget he's only in his early 20s and has been in international cricket since 17. Ferguson has speed and is fun to watch highlights reels of but hasn't blown away FC. Howsie's boi Zak Gibson is rapid and 17-18.

At the lower levels our pitches and conditions don't have the same needs Australia has, so we don't produce the really fast bowlers as often. Swing and good areas get the job done and the best at those get to FC and looking around, there are enough under 25 with a lot going for them, bowling at least 135 and often enough 140+ and doing well in the Shield. Granted most of these bowlers are from Northern Districts, Central Districts and Canterbury, but NZ manage.

The issues are injuries and rawness/wild fluctuations. I suspect what the test side wants from the third seamer is a really hard adjustment for these young new ball bowlers to make.

The bowling will be fine. The problems start with some FC sides being really really cynical with some of their top order batting selections. With only 6 FC teams NZ needs everyone to be trying to produce test players, not going full Kippax with their memes.
 
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straw man

Hall of Fame Member
It's hard to speculate on these things as mere plebs tbh, but there's the guy Bond would be the closest to calling his protege in 2015/16, if you want to follow the Canterbury scorecards. Ed Nuttall -

Mm correlating NZ's bowling success to Bond-exposure is almost reaching meme levels itself, even if it's reasonable to believe he's had a strong impact.

Boult #3 there looks less smooth than previous. Like he's forcing it through McCone style.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Does the high performance academy in CHCH have all season grass nets. If it is indoor concrete then say good bye to Zak's chances as that is where he is headed with his scholarship.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Does the high performance academy in CHCH have all season grass nets. If it is indoor concrete then say good bye to Zak's chances as that is where he is headed with his scholarship.
They have a marquee over (some of?) the outdoor nets. No Palmerston North style indoor facility yet.

Should move some of the HPC stuff, winter camps etc, to PN until they do.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
We get one or two 150kph guys with every generation. Milne is likely to be a star. Easy to forget he's only in his early 20s and has been in international cricket since 17. Ferguson has speed and is fun to watch highlights reels of but hasn't blown away FC. Howsie's boi Zak Gibson is rapid and 17-18.

At the lower levels our pitches and conditions don't have the same needs Australia has, so we don't produce the really fast bowlers as often. Swing and good areas get the job done and the best at those get to FC and looking around, there are enough under 25 with a lot going for them, bowling at least 135 and often enough 140+ and doing well in the Shield. Granted most of these bowlers are from Northern Districts, Central Districts and Canterbury, but NZ manage.

The issues are injuries and rawness/wild fluctuations. I suspect what the test side wants from the third seamer is a really hard adjustment for these young new ball bowlers to make.

The bowling will be fine. The problems start with some FC sides being really really cynical with some of their top order batting selections. With only 6 FC teams NZ needs everyone to be trying to produce test players, not going full Kippax with their memes.
Based on the fairly reliable metric that domestic speed guns read bowlers at approx 5kmh slower than international guns (for some reason), then both Kuggs and Ferguson are capable of 145 kmh consistently, and can nudge 150 when they go all out.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Any body remember Ed Nuttal's old man? I once watched him bowl something like 10 overs for 8 runs in a Shell Cup game at the Mount. Mark Priest at the other end.

Slow left armers: stinking out cricket since ages ago.

About 20 years ahead of his time. He'd coulda been a millionaire with his nude lefties in the T20 age.
 
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Immenso

International Vice-Captain
^^ here it is.

Was 3 for 13 off 10.
G Hick and all. (Hick, Crocker and Barry Cooper), that's a pretty good haul back in 1989.

Crocker: 11 off 69, lol.

Players

Gah. Why don't URLs copied from the archive work?

Anyway. I see he did also bowl 10 overs for 8 runs v Wellington that same 88/89 season. I hate myself for knowing this pointless information ....,,
 
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kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
I've still never seen a bowler like Barry Cooper. All he did was lob it as slowly as possible towards the stumps with no drift or spin at all. And he was actually pretty effective.

Edit: my group of guys who played cricket banned bowling Barry Cooper style because it was considered against the spirit of cricket haha.
 
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Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I've still never seen a bowler like Barry Cooper. All he did was lob it as slowly as possible towards the stumps with no drift or spin at all. And he was actually pretty effective.

Edit: my group of guys who played cricket banned bowling Barry Cooper style because it was considered against the spirit of cricket haha.
Very effective bowling style on a concrete based artificial.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Very effective bowling style on a concrete based artificial.
The least effective bowling I have ever seen is underspinning the ball. The act of undercutting it actually gives it a nicer arc through the air and the ball doesn't drop on batsman. Have had two team mates who bowled it. Both were the captain of the team and were able to bowl themselves for numerous overs. Apparently in some game in their youths they got one to skid on and trapped the guy in front. I never saw. Needless to say both bowlers got tonked mercilessly.
 

kiwiviktor81

International Debutant
I tried getting underspin to work for ages. My theory was to have someone in close and use the underspin to get the ball to rise off the bat for a close in catch. Worked brilliantly with a tennis ball; never with a cricket ball.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
'Underspinning', from experience, is basically best used as a surprise slower ball, with lots of flight. Anyone who bowls it as a stock ball is a deluded moron.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
If Andrew Nuttall was ever nerd enough to read this, I'm sure he would be delighted to read that within about 3 posts the conversation morphed into the crapiest spin bowling there is in hacker level cricket on artificial wickets.
 
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vandem

International 12th Man
I've still never seen a bowler like Barry Cooper. All he did was lob it as slowly as possible towards the stumps with no drift or spin at all. And he was actually pretty effective.

Edit: my group of guys who played cricket banned bowling Barry Cooper style because it was considered against the spirit of cricket haha.
Sometimes with a little off-spin. 13 wickets in a Hawke Cup match! The Home of CricketArchive

Was unlucky not to make NZ ODI side. Shame he played before the T20 circus, aggressive batsman, good ring fielder, and his slow-mediums / nude spin would have worked OK.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Sometimes with a little off-spin. 13 wickets in a Hawke Cup match! The Home of CricketArchive

Was unlucky not to make NZ ODI side. Shame he played before the T20 circus, aggressive batsman, good ring fielder, and his slow-mediums / nude spin would have worked OK.
The phrase nude spin has really taken off recently. In my day it was "phantom" spin. What then, are we saying that Lance Dry bowls nude spin?
 

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