**Official** New Zealand in Australia 2015

[CM Punk]

I absolutely hate losing to the Aussies, I hope we thoroughly beat them 2-0 at home...

 

[Jono]

Ugh, Llong did nothing wrong ffs. If you want to blame an umpire, blame the on-field one!

Even if you think he came to the right decision or that he was limited by the rules etc, he did two things wrong:

1. He took forever
2. He made the statement "that mark could have come from anything" or something similar. He is forever a dumb **** in my eyes for saying that.

 

[Skyliner]

Best to forget the decision and move on.

They need to look at the DRS, as at the moment it seems to be a system designed to back bad umpiring.

 

[thundaboult]

I don't think it's any lack of effort from Milne. Some players are just horribly injury-prone - Shane Bond, for example.

Although I read somewhere long ago where Bond said that he was injury prone simply because he wasn't physically active enough in his early years. Couldn't find the direct interview but this comes close. The question around the 2 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqItdkjqsA

 

[Prince EWS]

Even if you think he came to the right decision or that he was limited by the rules etc

There's no way I'm letting Dan off that easily tbh. As far as I'm concerned it's ridiculous to take the position that he shouldn't have over-turned it; it was entirely conclusive that he'd edged it.

I mean, if you're actually coming out and saying "Lyon was out" and not "Lyon was probably out", then you're already admitting it was conclusive right there.

 

[thundaboult]

Series ratings:

Neesham 1 - should stick to Twitter. Looked pretty useless in his one Test.

LOL, true that.

 

[NUFAN]

Southee rating above Lyon for the series just seems wrong.

 

[Moss]

Good reality check for NZ. Been a great 2 year run and sad that it had to end here, but 1-1 would have probably been paper over the cracks. Don't think the McCullum era is done but some introspection needed for sure.

Wouldn't worry too much about the pace attack, they've always needed the batsmen to give them enough runs to play with. None of NZ's recent wins have been complete low scoring affairs. When the batsmen collectively fail, Lords 2013 or Adelaide 2015 more likely to happen.

 

[thundaboult]

I don't think it's any lack of effort from Milne. Some players are just horribly injury-prone - Shane Bond, for example.

Here it is, found it.

Did you ever find the answer to why you were getting injured so often?
Probably, it was just because of the way I bowled. I struggled to bowl within myself. A lot of bowlers bowl at 90%. I always bowled as hard I could. The thing that hurt me the most was, I was really lazy in my late teens. Because of that, I got a lot of back problems. So I missed a lot of years from 17 to 23. I never had a good base for bowling. I just lacked it. I went away from cricket, and then I am back, and all of a sudden bowling proper fast. I played a little bit of cricket and I was in the New Zealand team suddenly. I went from a little bit of cricket to international cricket, where I am bowling fast. That catch-up was too much. The difference in intensity at domestic and international levels is massive and people don't appreciate how big it is. I just played with that intensity and it took its toll.

Shane Bond interview: 'I love Test cricket, but I'm also a realist' | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Midwinter]

Santner looks a good prospect

 

[OverratedSanity]

Bracewell comfortably the pick of the NZ bowlers this series for me. Would never have guessed that before.

 

[Stapel]

How come your own countrymen including experienced test players roundly condemned him then? A huge mark on the bat indicative of a big top edge, evident in the front on hotspot shots, ball deviation in super slo-mo. He couldn't see instantly that the footage for the lbw tracking was from a different delivery....you say that's not wrong???
Snicko would have been the icing on the cake...it didn't even register when the ball hit Lyons shoulder. And the wrong footage for the lbw tracking. Llong's a muppet but Channel 9 disgraceful as well. DRS shown up, Indians rightly suspicious.

Possibly there is some DRS-instruction, or even an undocumented set of rules, that tells 3rd umpires to not overturn a decison, unless both snickle & hotspot agree it was a wrong decision? I honostly can't figure out by which standard 3rd-umpiring really goes. I would have given it, but I didn't think it was the biggest deal.

The wrong footage for LBW seems far, far, far more disturbing to me. It seems so ridiculously odd, that I want to believe only home-viewers got the wrong footage.........

 

[Skyliner]

The wrong footage for LBW seems far, far, far more disturbing to me. It seems so ridiculously odd, that I want to believe only home-viewers got the wrong footage.........

The lack of snicko audio was the most disturbing thing for me. Given that we heard all of Llong's deliberations as he viewed the footage, I think it's not possible that home viewers got a different picture shown than what Llong was shown.

 

[Bahnz]

Possibly there is some DRS-instruction, or even an undocumented set of rules, that tells 3rd umpires to not overturn a decison, unless both snickle & hotspot agree it was a wrong decision? I honostly can't figure out by which standard 3rd-umpiring really goes. I would have given it, but I didn't think it was the biggest deal.

The wrong footage for LBW seems far, far, far more disturbing to me. It seems so ridiculously odd, that I want to believe only home-viewers got the wrong footage.........

Nah there have been plenty of times when umpires have overturned not out decisions where hot spot showed nothing but RTS picked up a nick. To play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't think I've ever seen a case of hot spot showing up and RTS remaining silent - so I kinda get why Llong pussed out and gave it not out (even if he was hilariously wrong). Given the hawkeye of the wrong ball it does make you wonder...

Anyway, couldn't follow the evening's play which is gutting cause it sounded like a cracker. Well done, Aus. To win after their star bowler pulled up on day 1 punctuates how much they deserve to win the series. Can't wait for the return series next year though, especially with the bowlers finally starting to click into gear.

For NZ, I'm sorry to say that this is a series that will forever stain McCullum's legacy as captain. The team turned up underprepared and underpar. The captaincy throughout the series - both in terms of field settings and bowling changes - was awful. The batting efforts of the lower order was abysmal and if anything it got worse as the series progressed - McCullum's failure to address this (and my suspicion that he probably actively encouraged it) is another black mark against his record.

Oh and Craig can **** the **** off. Yeah we kinda expected him to bowl pies, but not to this extent. What's more we at least expected him to bat with some brains and not continuously sell his top order batting partners short. "Oh but he always comes good to win us one in the closing stages of a series!!!!". **** off.

#bringbackjeets

Nz grades
KW A
Taylor B
Southee B-
Bracewell C+
Boult C+
Latham C
McCullum D
Watling D-
Guptill F
Craig kicked out of school for constantly ****ting himself and on other students in class.

 

[Moss]

Nah there have been plenty of times when umpires have overturned not out decisions where hot spot showed nothing but RTS picked up a nick. To play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't think I've ever seen a case of hot spot showing up and RTS remaining silent - so I kinda get why Llong pussed out and gave it not out (even if he was hilariously wrong). Given the hawkeye of the wrong ball it does make you wonder...

Anyway, couldn't follow the evening's play which is gutting cause it sounded like a cracker. Well done, Aus. To win after their star bowler pulled up on day 1 punctuates how much they deserve to win the series. Can't wait for the return series next year though, especially with the bowlers finally starting to click into gear.

For NZ, I'm sorry to say that this is a series that will forever stain McCullum's legacy as captain. The team turned up underprepared and underpar. The captaincy throughout the series - both in terms of field settings and bowling changes - was awful. The batting efforts of the lower order was abysmal and if anything it got worse as the series progressed - McCullum's failure to address this (and my suspicion that he probably actively encouraged it) is another black mark against his record.

Oh and Craig can **** the **** off. Yeah we kinda expected him to bowl pies, but not to this extent. What's more we at least expected him to bat with some brains and not continuously sell his top order batting partners short. "Oh but he always comes good to win us one in the closing stages of a series!!!!". **** off.

#bringbackjeets

Nz grades
KW A
Taylor B
Southee B-
Bracewell C+
Boult C+
Latham C
McCullum D
Watling D-
Guptill F
Craig kicked out of school for constantly ****ting himself and on other students in class.

Bracewell C+? Got better and better as the series progressed, embraced the 3rd seamer role and showed signs of having worked on his batting.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, nothing on RTS and HotSpot can, occasionally, get false positives. Now its obvious to all and sundry that Lyon hit it, the on-field umpire should have given it out. No argument there. The standing umpire ****ed up big time. But not being able to see the hotspot occur, in combination with the lack of RTS, means that definitive evidence does not exist for Llong to overturn the on-field decision. It's probably enough for him to make the decision himself. But that's not his job.

Nigel Llong the umpire can infer that it was out, but Nigel Llong the process-following Decision Reviewer cannot.

That said, Jono is 100% right about him being a dick for the "could have been anything" comment, but I imagine he knew he was on-air and didn't have time to explain the intricacies related to the key piece of definitive evidence being off screen because the HotSpot FoV is **** for sweep shots.

As an umpire, everything is about processes. Your processes are what make you get decisions right more often than not. But sometimes, very rarely, they just don't work -- and you have to accept that. But if you've developed them correctly, they're still a damn sight better than any other set of processes, or not having them at all.

Llong has done everything by the book but has been forced to make the wrong decision. It sucks, but these things happen. Unfortunately, this failure of the DRS technology and process had big ramifications for the match. But don't throw the ****ing baby out with the bathwater by suggesting DRS should be scrapped. It corrects the extreme majority of poor decisions (or, at least, has the potential to if Brendon McCullum doesn't gamble them on marginal LBWs in the first hour of every innings).

 

[Gob]

Here it is, found it.

Did you ever find the answer to why you were getting injured so often?
Probably, it was just because of the way I bowled. I struggled to bowl within myself. A lot of bowlers bowl at 90%. I always bowled as hard I could. The thing that hurt me the most was, I was really lazy in my late teens. Because of that, I got a lot of back problems. So I missed a lot of years from 17 to 23. I never had a good base for bowling. I just lacked it. I went away from cricket, and then I am back, and all of a sudden bowling proper fast. I played a little bit of cricket and I was in the New Zealand team suddenly. I went from a little bit of cricket to international cricket, where I am bowling fast. That catch-up was too much. The difference in intensity at domestic and international levels is massive and people don't appreciate how big it is. I just played with that intensity and it took its toll.

Shane Bond interview: 'I love Test cricket, but I'm also a realist' | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Also an Analyst and a Therapist

 

[Compton]

The worst aspect of the Lyon decision was just the fact that the straight on view made it perfectly clear that he's hit it.

You see the trajectory of the ball change, and you see the spin come off of it as well. That should have been enough to overrule the decision on its own.

 

[indiaholic]

Yeah, nothing on RTS and HotSpot can, occasionally, get false positives. Now its obvious to all and sundry that Lyon hit it, the on-field umpire should have given it out. No argument there. The standing umpire ****ed up big time. But not being able to see the hotspot occur, in combination with the lack of RTS, means that definitive evidence does not exist for Llong to overturn the on-field decision. It's probably enough for him to make the decision himself. But that's not his job.

Nigel Llong the umpire can infer that it was out, but Nigel Llong the process-following Decision Reviewer cannot.

That said, Jono is 100% right about him being a dick for the "could have been anything" comment, but I imagine he knew he was on-air and didn't have time to explain the intricacies related to the key piece of definitive evidence being off screen because the HotSpot FoV is **** for sweep shots.

As an umpire, everything is about processes. Your processes are what make you get decisions right more often than not. But sometimes, very rarely, they just don't work -- and you have to accept that. But if you've developed them correctly, they're still a damn sight better than any other set of processes, or not having them at all.

Llong has done everything by the book but has been forced to make the wrong decision. It sucks, but these things happen. Unfortunately, this failure of the DRS technology and process had big ramifications for the match. But don't throw the ****ing baby out with the bathwater by suggesting DRS should be scrapped. It corrects the extreme majority of poor decisions (or, at least, has the potential to if Brendon McCullum doesn't gamble them on marginal LBWs in the first hour of every innings).

See if your processes are THAT algorithmic, might as well code that into the system. We have a human umpire to ensure that he can use human intuition and skill to ensure that he can deviate from the process if that leads to the correct decision.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Fully awta. People keep going on and on about how the human part of umpiring is threatened by using too much technology. Just use some common sense ffs. We don't need a robot. If we wanted a robot to make a decision, we'd get a robot