Steve Smith vs Kane Williamson

[Howsie]

Covered how, he hasn't scored any runs overseas yet. If he were an Indian batsman he'd be criticised non stop, especially here on CW.

 

[Smudge]

My top 5 batsman in tests

ABDV
Smudge
Amler
r00t
Mathews

You're too kind.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

huh

I would have thought that Root has got Williamson covered tbh

Root only averages 17 in Aotearoa. Either our bowlers are amazing (he faced the class of Wagner and guile of Bruce Martin), or he's worse than Kaney.

 

[Gnske]

huh

I would have thought that Root has got Williamson covered tbh

Friendly reminder any tons against the Indian "pace attack" don't count.

That goes for TPC as well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Root only averages 17 in Aotearoa. Either our bowlers are amazing (he faced the class of Wagner and guile of Bruce Martin), or he's worse than Kaney.

Or he hasn't played there since he was crap?

I'm guessing here, not sure when he played in NZ, but Root's only really gotten good since after the 2013/14 Ashes (where he was pretty crap)

 

[Furball]

huh

I would have thought that Root has got Williamson covered tbh

You're talking to parochial as **** Kiwis who think they're the best side ever because New Zealand have actually won a couple of games this year.

 

[Zinzan]

Lol righto. Oh the irony that you of all people would post this ****.

There's a decent argument to be made for any of the 3 in the Root/KW/Smith debate. To suggest it's a non-contest (whether you have a personal preference or not) is either based on dishonesty, ignorance or is just trolling imo.

If forced to choose between the 3 of them, I'd probably lean towards Root ever so slightly at this moment in time, but one good or bad series from anyone of them would probably change that.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Somehow Root piling on runs almost exclusively at home is ok but Kohli failing in one competitive country is a massive black mark despite succeeding literally everywhere else. Weird how that works.

 

[Zinzan]

Somehow Root piling on runs almost exclusively at home is ok but Kohli failing in one competitive country is a massive black mark despite succeeding literally everywhere else. Weird how that works.

I was referring specifically to KW/Root & Smith, since Root was pulled into the comparison above. Certainly the likes of Mathews, Kohli & Rahane, to name a few are also up there among the finest young batsmen around atm.

 

[Contra]

Somehow Root piling on runs almost exclusively at home is ok but Kohli failing in one competitive country is a massive black mark despite succeeding literally everywhere else. Weird how that works.

I think the argument is not so much that Root only scores at home, but that he hasn't played much overseas yet (unlike Kohli), so it's just a matter of being tested outside of home, also Root has done better in England than Kohli has in India, having said that Kohli did gun it in Australia where Root failed, in the long run I see Kohli overtaking Root as I don't rate Root as highly personally, but at this point you can't really fault Root yet, just by virtue of him not having played much overseas yet.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think the argument is not so much that Root only scores at home, but that he hasn't played much overseas yet (unlike Kohli), so it's just a matter of being tested outside of home, also Root has done better in England than Kohli has in India, having said that Kohli did gun it in Australia where Root failed, in the long run I see Kohli overtaking Root as I don't rate Root as highly personally, but at this point you can't really fault Root yet, just by virtue of him not having played much overseas yet.

Of course you can't fault him, but as said, imagine Root as an SC batsman. People would be screaming from the rooftops about how "we need to wait and see" what he does overseas. There is no consistency.

 

[Contra]

Of course you can't fault him, but as said, imagine Root as an SC batsman. People would be screaming from the rooftops about how "we need to wait and see" what he does overseas. There is no consistency.

Isn't that still the case though? Surely no one actually rates Root outside England just yet?

 

[Zinzan]

Of course you can't fault him, but as said, imagine Root as an SC batsman. People would be screaming from the rooftops about how "we need to wait and see" what he does overseas. There is no consistency.

Out of interest, who are you referring to when you say 'people'? I mean there's more SC fans in world cricket than any others, one of the reasons for Tendulkar's extraordinary fame. Or were you referring specifically to this particular forum?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Out of interest, who are you referring to when you say 'people'? I mean there's more SC fans in world cricket than any others, one of the reasons for Tendulkar's extraordinary fame. Or were you referring specifically to this particular forum?

Just the general sentiment of people online, and commentators from Eng/Aus not placing enough emphasis on overseas achievements or lack thereof of their own players but putting a massive spotlight on an SC player when he fails overseas. I don't really need to explain it further surely. It happens a lot.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I rate them on adorableness and miscellaneous online worship. I guess batting should count for a bit too. The weightings are as follows:

adorableness - 50%
online worship groups - 49%
batting - 1%

Kane wins out on adorableness in a landslide. The online worship stakes are dead even, Steven Smith's deity status on CW testing forum scoring him big points but Kane's 14 year old fangirls hitting back hard. We'll call it a draw. In the batting stakes Smith is definitely better atm.

Overall winner - KW

close the thread

 

[Zinzan]

Just the general sentiment of people online, and commentators from Eng/Aus not placing enough emphasis on overseas achievements or lack thereof of their own players but putting a massive spotlight on an SC player when he fails overseas. I don't really need to explain it further surely. It happens a lot.

Interesting you say that, a good mate of mine originally from Jamaica makes a similar argument, only the other way around. He's always maintained that Brian Lara would have been so much more revered and respected had he be born in India and not Trinidad, so I suppose it depends who you talk to.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Isn't that still the case though? Surely no one actually rates Root outside England just yet?

Doubt it. People rate Root highly (rightly so) but you don't quite hear as much about him having made his runs at home. I mean, if he'd been an Indian or Pakistani player his record would brushed off by lots of people. Look at Azhar Ali and Sarfraz Ahmed for example. They've been piling them on in the UAE but you don't hear about them much in discussions about the best batsmen. They're proably not as good as Root anyway, but that's a separate issue.

Hell, Angelo Mathews wasn't talked about much at all in glowing terms until he scored those runs in England, despite him having scored tons of high quality runs against Pakistan in UAE and SL in the year leading up to the England tour. There is a clear double standard.

 

[Zinzan]

Doubt it. People rate Root highly (rightly so) but you don't quite hear as much about him having made his runs at home. I mean, if he'd been an Indian or Pakistani player his record would brushed off by lots of people. Look at Azhar Ali and Sarfraz Ahmed for example. They've been piling them on in the UAE but you don't hear about them much in discussions about the best batsmen. They're proably not as good as Root anyway, but that's a separate issue.

Hell, Angelo Mathews wasn't talked about much at all in glowing terms until he scored those runs in England, despite him having scored tons of high quality runs against Pakistan in UAE and SL in the year leading up to the England tour. There is a clear double standard.

Nah, that's just a natural home bias that you'll notice more if you listen primarily to Aust/Eng commentators/writers. I've always thought the same about the Indian media/fans and their players.

I mean the way Tendulkar was always held so much above his contemporaries (who had similar records) by the Indian media and fans is pretty much exactly the same isn't it? And that's saying nothing of the Bradman comparisons. And look at the way a player like Yuvraj Singh was always over-hyped.

Everyone knows how biased the Aust channel 9 commentators have been over the years, with the notable exception of Benaud. I think it happens everywhere tbh, but we all notice it more acutely when we're looking in from the outside.

 

[OverratedSanity]

How is Tendulkar being rated highly even remotely the same?

Lots of commentators and writers simply use the term FTB very conveniently only to describe SC batsmen who fail overseas and not the other way around.

 

[Zinzan]

The similarity is that home media/fans generally look at their own in more favorable eyes, and frankly there's no better example in sport than how Tendulkar was elevated above all other cricketers by Indian media/fans.

On the FTB thing... exactly the same happens when a non- SC player is weak against spin and hence doesn't do so well in SC conditions, he would be called out for it. Just look at Ricky Ponting... the amount of Indians I've spoken to over the years who don't rate Ponting (as much) for his lack of runs in India is really no different, and is probably fair enough.

As I said, it depends which media you listen to/read.