NZ's 3rd seamer at the Gabba

[hendrix]

re: Wagner. Love the guy but in what way would he be a useful pick in Australia? Moreover if you're going to pick 5 bowlers so that the workload is shared, why on earth would one of them be Wagner?

He's slower than the others. He swings the ball less than the others. He's not miserly or accurate. He is good at bowling long, tireless spells to give the strike bowlers a rest. Wagner's value is in toil and the ability to buy wickets. A good pick against batsmen who can hang around and play out testing spells.

Don't get me wrong, I think that's a great skill and I've genuinely appreciated the work he's done in this regard. But in no way does "batsmen who can hang around" describe the Aussie lineup.

 

[the big bambino]

Not much spooning of Bracewell in this thread. I know he's got some competition but he's shown what he can do in Oz so I wouldn't be surprised if that form gets him serious consideration. Was also a bit surprised Southee had to be defended. Close to best new baller going around over the last few years. I'm guessing NZ will go with Henry but think Bracewell is closer to selection than many think.

 

[Kippax]

Not much spooning of Bracewell in this thread. I know he's got some competition but he's shown what he can do in Oz so I wouldn't be surprised if that form gets him serious consideration. Was also a bit surprised Southee had to be defended. Close to best new baller going around over the last few years. I'm guessing NZ will go with Henry but think Bracewell is closer to selection than many think.

Yeah I can see it too. Hesson and our bowling coach Mascarenhas are sort of bundling all of the toys into the cupboard and calling the room spotlessly tidy with Bracewell though. They ideally need a Howsie in that dressing room, telling Bracewell that although his vastly improved attitude and work in the gym is great, his booming outswingers used to be better than they are now. A guy with a camera zoomed in on his seam presentation at every net session.

 

[Zinzan]

Milne has to play Adelaide IMO. That pink ball goes, and it goes late under lights. Starc should do a demolition job there, and I reckon Milne would be very similar.

For NZ, I'd almost consider 5 bowlers for the D/N. Southee-Boult-Wagner-Milne-Craig.

Agree about Milne, not Wagner.

In a perfect world I'd like to see Milne too, but of course that's on the proviso his body's up to the workload of a test, which is the biggest doubter for him.

More realistically I'm split between Bracewell and Henry, slightly ahead of Wagner, probably just give it to Braces based on his history in Australia.

 

[Dan]

Bracewell is a myth. And Bracewell's exploits in Hobart mean the square root of **** all for a WACA Test, or even a Gabba one.

The 'logic' (if you can call it that) behind my think-out-loud 5 bowler idea is that you'd be able to use Milne in super-short, explosive spells (i.e. less worry that he'd break down), without having to bowl a pressure-releasing all-rounder in his place. That being said, is Wagner much less of a release valve than Neesham/Anderson?

tbh I just want to find a way to justify the Milne inclusion for Adelaide, even if he isn't truly Test-fit

 

[thundaboult]

Bracewell is a myth. And Bracewell's exploits in Hobart mean the square root of **** all for a WACA Test, or even a Gabba one.

The 'logic' (if you can call it that) behind my think-out-loud 5 bowler idea is that you'd be able to use Milne in super-short, explosive spells (i.e. less worry that he'd break down), without having to bowl a pressure-releasing all-rounder in his place. That being said, is Wagner much less of a release valve than Neesham/Anderson?

tbh I just want to find a way to justify the Milne inclusion for Adelaide, even if he isn't truly Test-fit

your last sentence is most of us

 

[Moss]

Bracewell must be quite prominent right now in the selector's minds following the South Africa ODI's. Different kettle of fish of course but if he's back to somewhere near his 2011-12 self the temptation must be very strong to stick him back in.

Milne too bowled better than I've generally seen in the South Africa series, showed that genuine pace used well will trouble anyone. However (if he makes the lineup for the Gabba) I can just see myself doing nothing but chewing my nails over his fitness for the course of the match. What was his 2014-15 red-ball season like?

Wagner - kind of funny how he's not the incumbent following his efforts in the first half of 2014. Good safe option, but I suppose has less of an x-factor than the others. (Though I disagree with Hendrix that he'd be surplus against the Aussie lineup - can see Smith, Voges and Nevill 'hanging around').

Henry, I don't know. Was pretty decent in England but expensive and yes needs to get out of that whole banging-the-ball-in-halfway thing. Also seems to be down on pace from previous ODI season. Great prospect and good to have in reserve but 3rd seamer on this tour seems a bridge too far as of now.

Neesham shapes as an important member of the side IMO. Bowling will give the quicks some respite and batting more likely to succeed there than Anderson (I suspect that debate will ahve it's own thread).

 

[Immenso]

I still think Bennett is better than Milne ...., sacrifice 5ks for some quick hooping swing.

I didn't really see much of this African tour, but saw Milne inswing a yorker/full toss to dismiss Amla. Did he get much swing in the non-highlights deliveries I would have missed?

Because that's the first time I've seen him swing it since the A tour in Ind/SL 2 almost 3 years ago.

I know a theory on CW is that he isn't trying to swing it during ODIs as that wasn't his role with boult/southee opening.

 

[hendrix]

I still think Bennett is better than Milne ...., sacrifice 5ks for some quick hooping swing.

I didn't really see much of this African tour, but saw Milne inswing a yorker/full toss to dismiss Amla. Did he get much swing in the non-highlights deliveries I would have missed?

Because that's the first time I've seen him swing it since the A tour in Ind/SL 2 almost 3 years ago.

I know a theory on CW is that he isn't trying to swing it during ODIs as that wasn't his role with boult/southee opening.

He's changed his action from inswing (a la Bond) to outswing (a la Steyn). He doesn't get too much swing with the new ball - all though it's certainly not dead straight. Just a touch of movement away from the batsman. I think if he slowed down like Steyn does he could hoop it.

The most movement he gets is from over 35 onwards when he gets significant reverse - see the Amla inswinging yorker.

 

[straw man]

Not much spooning of Bracewell in this thread. I know he's got some competition but he's shown what he can do in Oz so I wouldn't be surprised if that form gets him serious consideration. Was also a bit surprised Southee had to be defended. Close to best new baller going around over the last few years. I'm guessing NZ will go with Henry but think Bracewell is closer to selection than many think.

If Neesham and Anderson are injured I could definitely see a back-to-the-future selection of both Bracewell (has workhorse quality) and Brownlie (back-foot specialist) based on previous success in Australia.

Personally my third seamer for Brisbane is still:
Henry - by a Jeremy-Coney-like nose over...
Wagner - by a whisker over...
Bracewell - by a shard of broken glass over...
Milne - still a wildcard with no real FC performance to speak of, injury risk so max 15 overs per day, need a Neesham/Anderson to be fit and bowling well and a safe spin bowler too to pick up overs. I'm saying all this while still very excited over his recent development. Consider again for second/third test.

It is all very much form dependent and the above could change very easily.

 

[Kippax]

I still think Bennett is better than Milne ...., sacrifice 5ks for some quick hooping swing.

I didn't really see much of this African tour, but saw Milne inswing a yorker/full toss to dismiss Amla. Did he get much swing in the non-highlights deliveries I would have missed?

Because that's the first time I've seen him swing it since the A tour in Ind/SL 2 almost 3 years ago.

I know a theory on CW is that he isn't trying to swing it during ODIs as that wasn't his role with boult/southee opening.

Yeah SuperSport did a piece on Milne about his arm going past parallel (coming through at 11 o'clock) and dragging it down leg quite a bit early on, then one with his arm at 12 o'clock, getting outswing and having Amla caught at third man. He wasn't bowling Duffy-style outswingers that start on a leg stump line; mostly it was the delivery that started half a metre wide of off stump that would get the swing.

I guess we finally started to see Milne on quick enough pitches to have batsmen yanking their bottom hands off the grip on this tour, which stokes up enthusiasm.

 

[Immenso]

Cheers kippax, nice reply. ^

On a related note to Milne's 'does he, dies he not anymore', swing.

I remember Mitch's breakout season in Ford Trophy he was swinging it round corners, and bowling a bit slower. Then when he was selected at the start of the next season for his debut tour to Saffaland on Baz's first tour as captain ... Talk in lead up was he they wanted him to bowl fast and aggressive etc etc I rolled my eyes at the time as all my concerns about captain aggressive seemed to be about to come true.

Well it worked out ok actually!, but 3 years later with Mitch's aggressive magic seeming to have vanished. Can I suggest he gives a try what made him get noticed in the first place.

Otherwise, I again put forward Bennett. This time for the aggresive JAMODI bowler role.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah you're remembering Mitch's rise and fall absolutely right. That's what concerns me a bit with Wheeler's lack of lbw shouts, because I think back to how easy McClenaghan made it look knocking over about 11 domestic players in two 50-over games, getting in tight to the stumps and shaping it back down the line.

 

[Kippax]

A jaffa of Milne's I captured earlier in the tour -

 

[Hurricane]

Basically the night before the team is announced in each test I plan to post

Milne must play and he must bowl like the wind

Which is basically my position as long as Corey is capable of bowling 135kms in relief of him if Adam breaks down.

There is a round or two of Plunket before the Australian tour, Adam needs to play in it to see if he can get through a 4 day game. The coach of CD must be contacted so he can be part of the plan.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Jimmy must play ahead of Corey.

 

[Flem274*]

milne can get through several games no problem. it's getting through a domestic summer of all three formats plus odi call ups that he's been terrible at, just like every other 145+ bowler in the world under the age of 25.

i think he could last three tests but if we tried to play him in all the JAMODIs agains australia/sri lanka/pakistan, the australian away tests, the sri lankan home tests and then the australian home tests then R.I.P in pieces nice dream you're having.

if they decide they want him to play tests then i'd scratch him from the sri lankan odis and that random series pakistan are dropping by for. i don't think either of those two teams will care about the odis and we shouldn't either. play him in the chappell-hadlee since that series matters to the nz casual fan and depending on test results the australian cricket team might be motivated for that series too, plus it will probably be mccullums goodbye series so we go in full strength if we can imo.

 

[Zinzan]

Basically the night before the team is announced in each test I plan to post



Which is basically my position as long as Corey is capable of bowling 135kms in relief of him if Adam breaks down.

Sorry but when exactly did Anderson move ahead of Neesham in the test allrounder pecking order?

Neesham's quite comfortably ahead for mine, I thought that become rather obvious in the last 12-18 months of test cricket.

 

[Dan]

Can we not start up Hurricane and his 'Neesham is a downhill skiier' argument again? If you're a Neesham supporter, just substitute 'Jimmy' for 'Corey' in that post and the meaning stays exactly the same.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

if it's an argument on reddit I want Jimmy, if we're talking about picking up chicks in de club then I'll take Anderson