Best international players against spin under 30 these days

[Zinzan]

yeah but the question was whether we were convinced of Smith's ability to play spin, not whether his record in Asia is better than KW's

No it wasn't, Hurricane just wrote he was tempted to say Smith is a better player of spin than KW, not whether we're convinced he can play spin and that's what I was responding to. He might well be very very good & not quite as good as KW. I'm not committing either way at this point, but feel he needs to really prove himself in Asia before I'd out his nose in front. Let's wait and see, he has a very small sample of games there at this point and is yet to tour SL.

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah and very different context to their innings as well. KW wouldn't have made 190-odd in UAE if instead of McCullum going bonkers at the other end, he had Usman Khawaja and co. collapsing in a heap.

Lol, don't dig the hole any deeper OS, this is really clutching at straws

 

[hendrix]

No it wasn't, Hurricane just wrote he was tempted to say Smith is a better player of spin than KW, not whether we're convinced he can play spin and that's what I was responding to. He might well be very very good & not quite as good as KW. I'm not committing either way at this point, but feel he needs to really prove himself in Asia before I'd out his nose in front. Let's wait and see, he has a very small sample of games there at this point and is yet to tour SL.

no, you're allowed to say that Smith is a better player of spin bowling even if his record might not be quite as good as KW's at this point.

Their careers are still relatively young.

 

[Zinzan]

no, you're allowed to say that Smith is a better player of spin bowling even if his record might not be quite as good as KW's at this point.

Their careers are still relatively young.

You can say that if you like. I won't. Is that what you really think?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lol, don't dig the hole any deeper OS, this is really clutching at straws

It's really not. "Not tonning up" is simply not a good enough criteria to hold against Smith when the context of his innings were totally different to those of KW.

 

[hendrix]

You can say that if you like. I won't. Is that what you really think?

It's not what I think, I don't think there's enough evidence to conclusively say either way so I'm happy to accept anecdotal and/or technical reasoning from people explaining why they think either one is better.

It's the equivalent of saying bowler X is a better bowler than Y because X is 10kmph faster and has a better outswinger, even if their records might be the same. Over a long period it's not acceptable to make such a judgement but I think it's acceptable when discussing relatively young careers.

 

[Zinzan]

It's really not. "Not tonning up" is simply not a good enough criteria to hold against Smith when the context of his innings were totally different to those of KW.

I'm talking about the stuff about McCullum and Khawaja. Seems you're almost implying Smith plays for a minnow and KW, one of the great batting lineups of all-time. Really seemed to be clutching at straws with that point.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm talking about the stuff about McCullum and Khawaja. Seems you're almost implying Smith plays for a minnow and KW, one of the great batting lineups of all-time. Really seemed to be clutching at straws with that point.

The ****? I didn't say that. They're both awesome, but if you put KW at Mohali with everyone collapsing after the openers, or in the Australian team in UAE, you think he scores 190 in that situation with none of his teammates having a clue about how to bat against spin? I mean, you could've blamed Smith for not getting a big score if he had some support atleast, but what's he supposed to do when everyone else sucks? That too when the sample for both Smith and KW is so tiny anyway

And please don't start with that BS "oh you're taking credit away from KW" please you're better than that. I'm just asking you to look at their performances in context and judge yourself whether having a criteria as arbitrary as "tonning up big" is fair or not. I don't think it is.

 

[Zinzan]

It's not what I think, I don't think there's enough evidence to conclusively say either way so I'm happy to accept anecdotal and/or technical reasoning from people explaining why they think either one is better.

It's the equivalent of saying bowler X is a better bowler than Y because X is 10kmph faster and has a better outswinger, even if their records might be the same. Over a long period it's not acceptable to make such a judgement but I think it's acceptable when discussing relatively young careers.

So what, it's still perfectly sound to say I'd like to see more of Smith in Asia before I'd ever say he had an edge playing spin over KW given he's hardly played there, without people jumping in saying, but he's got couple of 90s.

 

[Zinzan]

The ****? I didn't say that. They're both awesome, but if you put KW at Mohali with everyone collapsing after the openers, or in the Australian team in UAE, you think he scores 190 in that situation with none of his teammates having a clue about how to bat against spin? I mean, you could've blamed Smith for not getting a big score if he had some support atleast, but what's he supposed to do when everyone else sucks? That too when the sample for both Smith and KW is so tiny anyway

And please don't start with that BS "oh you're taking credit away from KW" please you're better than that. I'm just asking you to look at their performances in context and judge yourself whether having a criteria as arbitrary as "tonning up big" is fair or not. I don't think it is.

There's a number of factors, as I said above I don't think it's so unreasonable for me to suggest I'd like to see Smith prove himself more in Asia (like KW has) before saying he's a better player of spin. It's not Smith's fault that's he's had less opportunities than KW to date, hence why I said I'll reserve judgment until I see more runs (and yes hundreds) in Asia.

You make it seem like that's an outrageously unreasonable point, and it just ain't. Remembering I was responding to someone suggesting they think Smith was actually better, not about the same and not untested.