Modern New Zealand XI (dayboo post 1980) second poll: Your Hospital Ward Occupants

[NZTailender]

Think I am the only one here who thinks Southee > Trent atm

Careers? You wouldn't be alone. Last 12 months in Tests? Probably.

 

[Zinzan]

Think I am the only one here who thinks Southee > Trent atm

With the exception of a few die-hard Southee fans, I'd guess yes.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Boult's ahead on form. Career wise, they're pretty much even.

 

[Hurricane]

Careers? You wouldn't be alone. Last 12 months in Tests? Probably.

With the exception of a few die-hard Southee fans, I'd guess yes.

I am in Tim's corner as being the better bowler out of the two of them. I find it hard to make a case on recent form though. My argument is based on entire careers.

 

[Zinzan]

I am in Tim's corner as being the better bowler out of the two of them. I find it hard to make a case on recent form though. My argument is based on entire careers.

Interesting. Even though Boult has a much better career record to date?

Incidentally, I've noticed on a few occasions now you refer to him as 'Tim'. Do you know him personally?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Interesting. Even though Boult has a much better career record to date?

He has a better "record" because Southee began his career awfully as a youngster. They've been good for approximately the same amount of time.

Their career achievements are pretty level.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I just feel Boult (thus far, anyway) has been much more consistent than Southee. At the top of his game, Southee is great, but he does seem to suffer from some extended periods of poorer form. I'd say he's probably in one of those spells of poorer form right now - at least in Test cricket. Between Zimbabwe's last tour of NZ and before NZ went to UAE - that Southee is the one you want. Either side of that spell (2011-2013 ish) he's not been anywhere near as good.

 

[Flem274*]

i thought southee bowled well in the UAE, it's just touring pacers go to the UAE to die.

 

[Zinzan]

He has a better "record" because Southee began his career awfully as a youngster. They've been good for approximately the same amount of time.

Pretty sure Boult has both the better career record and the better recent record of say the last 2 years. And if there's more of a weighting on the most recent 12 months, Boult wins that comfortably.

Last 12 months;

Boult 32 wickets @ 26
Southee 21 wickets @ 42

So Boult seems to have him covered on all bases, saying nothing of the fact he's also better with the white ball.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I'd vote for Boult over Southee, too.

 

[Bahnz]

Thought about it some, but I really don't think you can go past Southee, Boult and Bond (with Cairns and Vettori as the support act).

Southee and Boult to open. Bond to be used in much the same way that Australia have used Mitch Johnson in the last couple years - four 4-5 over bursts a day. As an attack I think it's just about perfectly balanced. Height and swing from Southee, pace and swing from Boult, paaaaace from Bond, height, pace, aggression and tricks from Cairns, and relentless accuracy and overs from Vettori.

 

[Zinzan]

No Chris Martin love from Bahnz? Surprising, I was guessing there'd at least be a mention, even if he wasn't going to be one of the 3.

 

[Bahnz]

Pretty sure Boult has both the better career record and the better recent record of say the last 2 years. And if there's more of a weighting on the most recent 12 months, Boult wins that comfortably.

Last 12 months;

Boult 32 wickets @ 26
Southee 21 wickets @ 42

So Boult seems to have him covered on all bases, saying nothing of the fact he's also better with the white ball.

Since Boult's debut, Southee's got a pretty similar record even with his gunge last 12 months (28.12).

 

[Bahnz]

No Chris Martin love from Bahnz? Surprising, I was guessing there'd at least be a mention, even if he wasn't going to be one of the 3.

Marto was an awesome hard worker during a time when we essentially had no other regularly available test class bowlers. But if we're being honest in terms of ability he'd probably struggle to make the top 20 of post 1980 bowlers.

 

[Hurricane]

Interesting. Even though Boult has a much better career record to date?

Incidentally, I've noticed on a few occasions now you refer to him as 'Tim'. Do you know him personally?

Since Boult's debut, Southee's got a pretty similar record even with his gunge last 12 months (28.12).

No - although I know his cousin I also call Brendon Brendon.

Tim is the better Bowler. He has scaled heights that Boult has not scaled. Tim's accuracy just went into the pooper recently. I don't like repeating posts, well actually I do, but not within the same week, essentially two days ago I said that Tim has been affected by too much Pajama cricket.

Hadlee was very particular to point out in his book that in ODIs you come wider of the crease and spear it into the batsman to cramp him for room. For each test he had to make an adjustment to get back close to the umpire and would often practice with a rubbish bin and try to get close to it in his run up.

These days with T20 there are additional adjustments and lines and lengths you need to bowl. That makes it even harder to change between formats and maintain form in tests.

tl;dr - he plays more T20 than Trent - or did before the recent IPL and that has hurt Tim.

 

[Zinzan]

Since Boult's debut, Southee's got a pretty similar record even with his gunge last 12 months (28.12).

Yeah, so he's almost as good as Boult on that one count, even though Boult has both the better overall career record and better recent record (12 months). So Boult wins on 2 counts & it's close on the 3rd.

It's also probably a little unfair on Boult comparing their records from his debut, at a point that Southee had more test experience up his sleeve, especially if you add in that Southee missed that SA'can tour of 2013, which was Boult's worst tour with the ball.

Do you have their numbers in tests they've actually played in together? That might be a little more indicative.

 

[Bahnz]

While it may be a little unfair comparing this records from Boult's debut, it's fairer than comparing their records from Southee's debut. Reckon if Boult had been in and out of the test side during his teens/early 20's his average would probably still be around 30.

During their careers Southee's been the better bowler almost every year save for the last 12 months - which have been pretty bad for Tim.

 

[straw man]

I like both Nash and Doull. On reflection Nash stands out to me as someone who would have turned into a very good bowler - good attributes, swing and (apart from the early years when he seemed more interested in being one of da boyz) quite smart. The problem is that he didn't turn into that bowler because of injuries. 93 wickets at 28.5 reflects that he had ability without making the most of it.

Doull is similar though slightly lesser than Nash imo. 98 wickets at 29.3, remembered mainly for some spectacular swing bowling.

Despite the feeling that Southee and Boult are only starting their careers, they already have more wickets than the two above; 140 and 120 respectively. This says more about the lack of longevity of Nash and Doull than anything else.

That and the fact that I back Southee to come back strongly from a disappointing last 12 months means I pick Southee and Boult. Bond a given of course, and even if you consider the above bowlers all a similar level than Boult gets in on the classic 'variety' argument. Basically I second Bahnz's attack.

 

[straw man]

I just feel Boult (thus far, anyway) has been much more consistent than Southee. At the top of his game, Southee is great, but he does seem to suffer from some extended periods of poorer form. I'd say he's probably in one of those spells of poorer form right now - at least in Test cricket.

True though you could have written the exact same post 12 months ago and reversed Boult and Southee's names.

 

[Hurricane]

Tim is the man. Howsie said he would be a once in a generation bowler when he was 18. We have heard I think from charleslara if memory serves correctly that he took 5 fers at will in age group when representing Auckland.
He is the chosen one and you will all bow down to him in due course like we all did the day he took 7 fer at Westpac. Yes I have a few beers in me ATM.