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Most intelligent bowlers atm and in history

Valer

First Class Debutant
Watson at his peak was an exceptional bowler and criminally underrated. But considering he is one of, if not the dumbest batsmen to ever play the game I'd struggle to put his bowling successes down to any sort of "intelligence".

That may be being unfair though.
In terms of being underrated, I've got him with a period of 14 tests averaging 50.5 with the bat and 24.2 with the ball.


Watson bowled to plans and extracted smart movement even from difficult conditions batting aside isn't that exact what you are looking for here in terms of "smart" bowling? No idea what is going on in his head but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

Absolutely agree tho with the willow in hand he's not exactly the sharpest tool .
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Bowling to a plan is as much disciplined obedience as it is intelligence, no?
Some bowlers decide next delivery after each ball. Some after bowling in the same spot for few deliveries. Some times bowling the same stuff is the plan. The ones who change up with eacj delivery do look spectacular. But both are effective.

I had a fellow left arm spinner bowling in tandem with me. This guy was a strapping 6' 3" guy who went down the Underwood way, bowling quick left arm spin. He would pitch everything in a good length on off stump and just outside setting up for the arm ball. Then he bowled it, which rushed in at medium pace. I was much more dynamic and bowled loopy leg breaks, top spinners and sliders, some times off breaks. I never tried to land two balls on the same spot unless batsman was really poor playing the line. For an example, I bowl a big loopy leg break on middle (to annonce me to the batsman), then a flat leg break on off (to lure him in to a cut), then a loopy one to pitch outside leg (to see whther he drives against spin), another loopy one on off (to see whether I can get him out of the crease), a top spinner (to see whether I can get an edge) and perhaps a slider (to get the man lbw). I looked spectacular when I was taking wickets, but I should admit, my partner in crime was way better than me when overall record taken in to account, although looked flat / monotonous / boring.
 
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weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Among Indian bowlers in recent years, Kumble, Ashwin, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Praveen Kumar, Zaheer (post-2007) were very intelligent. Sachin Tendulkar was probably a more intelligent bowler than all 5 of them but he often didn't have the control (due to lack of practice more than anything else, I guess) to execute his plans properly.
 

Daemon

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Praveen Kumar.. I dunno. The more I think about this the harder it gets to figure out a way of assessing a bowler's intelligence.

On one hand you have guys that are limited by their style of bowling (or even skill) who stick to a plan because they know it works. Is that intelligence? On the other you have guys who bowl a couple of outswingers and then bring one back in who look like they set the batsmen up but really, what they are doing is essentially the same as the other bowler isn't it? Bowling to their strengths, and sticking to a plan formulated based on them. You can argue that knowing, for example, when to bring it back in is intelligence, but it could be experience and just instinct. The lines become hazy.

Targetting specific weaknesses of batsmen (someone mentioned Hadlee kept a diary?), playing mind games, adapting pace, fields, line and lengths according to the situation and conditions are all qualities that I think I've kinda settled on as the ones I'd look for in an intelligent bowler. And like I said before, I think anecdotes are much more important here in determining which bowlers actually had these.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Praveen Kumar.. I dunno. The more I think about this the harder it gets to figure out a way of assessing a bowler's intelligence.

On one hand you have guys that are limited by their style of bowling (or even skill) who stick to a plan because they know it works. Is that intelligence? On the other you have guys who bowl a couple of outswingers and then bring one back in who look like they set the batsmen up but really, what they are doing is essentially the same as the other bowler isn't it? Bowling to their strengths, and sticking to a plan formulated based on them. You can argue that knowing, for example, when to bring it back in is intelligence, but it could be experience and just instinct. The lines become hazy.

Targetting specific weaknesses of batsmen (someone mentioned Hadlee kept a diary?), playing mind games, adapting pace, fields, line and lengths according to the situation and conditions are all qualities that I think I've kinda settled on as the ones I'd look for in an intelligent bowler. And like I said before, I think anecdotes are much more important here in determining which bowlers actually had these.
Praveen Kumar puts himself in the game to be considered for intelligence by having variations.

If you have no variations, e.g. you are brent arnel, then you have no business being in a test team to begin with.

Your job as a teenage bowler is to learn variations.

Learn the leg cutter if you can't swing it. But you must learn movement.

As a spinner I had speed variations. And "areas" variations where I would target different areas on the pitch that still required a defensive shot.

The next comment will sound ridiculous or either make my point. But my final variation was patience. Sometimes I would just keep the pressure on and not bowl my quicker delivery at all, or my more flighted one.

While I am blabbing on. I did have different grips as well and could make the ball not arrive to you when you expected it.

Etc etc etc.

When I was 17 years old and had been in the first team training squad since a 13 year old and was an old pro of high school cricket I would take the up and coming spinners aside and teach them how to think.

Thinking begins when a batsman walks out to bat. Before he has faced a delivery you should know whether he is an offside player or an on side player just from how he is holding the bat and his grip.

If you immediately start executing a plan without waiting to watch the batsman get a few confidence building shots away then you are ahead of the game and likely to get him out.

Sadly my spin was quite ****e against top players and they would smash me for six at will as I didn't have any loop. Less intelligent spinners than I were far more successful just because their basic tool kit was better. Against lower grades I was effective.

Loop is probably more important than spin, or at least equally as important.
 

Daemon

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Not quite sure I got your point :p, but I did mention adjusting line, lengths and pace, which you defined as variations.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Not quite sure I got your point :p, but I did mention adjusting line, lengths and pace, which you defined as variations.
No problem I think I have been missing the mark all evening. Unusual for me as I try to pride myself on clarity of the points I put out.

Essentially I was addressing a point that you might even not have been making. I took your post about praveen to be you suggesting that a bowler who can't move it can be equally as intelligent as one who can.

Hopefully if you re read my post knowing that is what I was addressing it will make sense. My post may have been a straw man in essence if I caught the wrong end of the stick of what you meant.
 

Daemon

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No problem I think I have been missing the mark all evening. Unusual for me as I try to pride myself on clarity of the points I put out.

Essentially I was addressing a point that you might even not have been making. I took your post about praveen to be you suggesting that a bowler who can't move it can be equally as intelligent as one who can.

Hopefully if you re read my post knowing that is what I was addressing it will make sense. My post may have been a straw man in essence if I caught the wrong end of the stick of what you meant.
My post was a question because I'm confused and not really sure how to define bowling intelligence. The latter part of my post is what I've roughly got in my head as an answer.
 

Contra

Cricketer Of The Year
Praveen Kumar.. I dunno. The more I think about this the harder it gets to figure out a way of assessing a bowler's intelligence.

On one hand you have guys that are limited by their style of bowling (or even skill) who stick to a plan because they know it works. Is that intelligence?
I do consider that to be intelligence, simply because the bowler is actually aware of their limitations, because there will be bowlers who are the same but DON'T stick to the plan they know works for whatever reasons, and if you have seen Indian bowlers bowl in recent times you will know what I'm talking about lol.
 

OverratedSanity

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I do consider that to be intelligence, simply because the bowler is actually aware of their limitations, because there will be bowlers who are the same but DON'T stick to the plan they know works for whatever reasons, and if you have seen Indian bowlers bowl in recent times you will know what I'm talking about lol.
Take a few wickets with good, traditional line and length bowling.

"Lol let's bowl short now"
 

Meridio

International Regular
Praveen Kumar puts himself in the game to be considered for intelligence by having variations.

If you have no variations, e.g. you are brent arnel, then you have no business being in a test team to begin with.

Your job as a teenage bowler is to learn variations.

Learn the leg cutter if you can't swing it. But you must learn movement.

As a spinner I had speed variations. And "areas" variations where I would target different areas on the pitch that still required a defensive shot.

The next comment will sound ridiculous or either make my point. But my final variation was patience. Sometimes I would just keep the pressure on and not bowl my quicker delivery at all, or my more flighted one.

While I am blabbing on. I did have different grips as well and could make the ball not arrive to you when you expected it.

Etc etc etc.

When I was 17 years old and had been in the first team training squad since a 13 year old and was an old pro of high school cricket I would take the up and coming spinners aside and teach them how to think.

Thinking begins when a batsman walks out to bat. Before he has faced a delivery you should know whether he is an offside player or an on side player just from how he is holding the bat and his grip.

If you immediately start executing a plan without waiting to watch the batsman get a few confidence building shots away then you are ahead of the game and likely to get him out.

Sadly my spin was quite ****e against top players and they would smash me for six at will as I didn't have any loop. Less intelligent spinners than I were far more successful just because their basic tool kit was better. Against lower grades I was effective.

Loop is probably more important than spin, or at least equally as important.
Funny you should mention Brent Arnel in a disparaging way in a thread about bowling intelligence. He's actually someone who's a very intelligent bowler - I know he looks like a bit of a country hick, but he's very onto it as a cricketer, knows bowling inside out and thinks a lot about the way to get batsmen out.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Boult's patience >>> southee's
I think people are taking too much from a series played against a team of lefties. Of course it's going to be easier for Boult to appear "patient" when he can put it on a length outside off and move it away ball after ball.
 

RossTaylorsBox

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Funny you should mention Brent Arnel in a disparaging way in a thread about bowling intelligence. He's actually someone who's a very intelligent bowler - I know he looks like a bit of a country hick, but he's very onto it as a cricketer, knows bowling inside out and thinks a lot about the way to get batsmen out.
Yeah, I thought it was commonly accepted that Arnel would be a gun bowling coach.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I thought it was commonly accepted that Arnel would be a gun bowling coach.
I think I failed to get my point across and first Daemon didn't understand it and now neither of you two did either.

My beef with Arnel is that he is gun barrell straight unless it is a green top.
 

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