Wilson back to full fitness!

[marc71178]

Most case-studies show that players who outperform their peers in the county championship also outperform them in Test-matches.

Is that why our team is full of the players with the best averages in Couny Cricket then?

 

[Dick Rockett]

And that's been a rip-roaring success, hasn't it?
Surely one of the worst bowlers, and the worst selections, of recent years. Up with Upashantha.
Why on Earth wasn't he mentioned when we were discussing "worst specialist bowler in international cricket of recent years"?

Believe me, I would never suggest that his selection was a success. Or even justified.

 

[Mingster]

Sure we do - depends on your level of optimism I guess. James Franklin, Mark Gillespie, Brad Scott, Bruce Martin, Andrew Penn, and Ewen Thompson have all bowled well in FC games this season.

Those with a good past record who haven't had great seasons this time are Iain O'Brien, Lance Hamilton and Brent Hefford.

If you're looking for promise I hear Luke Woodcock and Regan West are turning into quite good spinners, and of course there's Richard Sherlock who is highly regarded.

And there are some players who are significantly better in one-dayers than FC games, such as Joseph Yovich and Andrew Schwass.

Of these bowlers only 2 have been selected for NZ before. Some of them I would consider worth looking at, others have lots of potential.

Plenty of cause for optimism in my book, especially when you add these guys to the recent NZ roster - Tuffey, Bond, Butler, Vettori, Mason, Oram, Adams, Cairns, Mills, Matt Walker, Hitchcock. Then there's Goldie!

Come on dude. When I meant depth, I meant players who are definietly capable of the international level. Half those guys you mentioned can't.

Adams? He's been crap if you have seen him lately.

Franklin? Didn't do much in the OD game and is going OK in the SC without being spectacular.

Gillespie? He thrived on last season when the picthes were green, but hasn't had the same success this year. He's is not international standard.

Thompson is nothing more than a medium-pacer, and can't even get starts when Mason comes back. That says a lot don't you think?

Hefford has been injured this season and Hamilton doesn't have a great record and is getting old.

Sherlock can't even get a start in the CD team. Again, how you say he is of depth I don't know.

Woodcock is a batting allrounder, not a spinner one. He bats at 4.

And Yovich is so crap now as a bowler, that the captain won't even bowl him. He's playing as a specialist batsman.

Cairns? Come on, we all know he's not the same bowler now.

Hitchcock got thrashed around the the SS, and to think he can do it at internationals is ridiculous.

Butler? He's not an ODI bowler and I doubt unless he can have better accuracy will ever be a force in ODIs.

Walker? He's one worthing at surely.

 

[Tim]

I would have to agree, I don't think there is much of a surplus in the bowling department.

I always rated Hefford as a good bowler, but he seems to have been undone by injury lately.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Come on dude. When I meant depth, I meant players who are definietly capable of the international level. Half those guys you mentioned can't.

Well then, I guess you fall into the pessimist category. What can I say? I disagree.

I've named 26 guys there. If you can't come up with 5-6 guys out of that lot...

 

[Tim]

A good example is Andrew Penn....now Penn takes a truckload of wickets for Wellington in the 4 dayers, but we all saw how hopeless he was when the pressure went on him at international level.

Out of all the bowlers on the domestic scene in NZ, maybe 3 or 4 could step up..the rest would sink.

 

[Dick Rockett]

A good example is Andrew Penn....now Penn takes a truckload of wickets for Wellington in the 4 dayers, but we all saw how hopeless he was when the pressure went on him at international level.

Penn is a special case in my book. He's never been much good at limited overs, yet he was selected for the ODI team and sank - big surprise there. The man's never been tried in the test team, a format that he's obviously more suited to, and I reckon that's a tragedy.

Out of all the bowlers on the domestic scene in NZ, maybe 3 or 4 could step up..the rest would sink.

Do you mean in addition to the guys already playing for NZ? If so, I'd say that 3-4 potential replacements is plenty. How much depth do you need?

 

[Tim]

Penn still has a Limited Overs bowling average of 25 though, although im not sure what it was 3 or 4 years ago when he played for NZ.

So Penn would have justified selection as an ODI bowler, but it's a whole different ball game when you get to international level & its hard to say whether he would have done any better at test level.

 

[Tim]

Yes I mean 3 or 4 players after the current NZ team.

3 or 4 is reasonable i'd say, but not a major surplus.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Yes, his one day average is good, but check out his RPO. That's shocking for domestic level.

Also. not to be too picky or anything, but I never claimed there was a "major" surplus. I feel there's plenty of talent there and I stand by that.

 

[southern man]

Otago thrashed Auckland today by 9 wickets, Cumming got 63 not out and Wasim got a run a ball 94 before going out to Matt Horne.

 

[Craig]

How on earth do you ever get out to Matt Horne?

BTW how long is Mohammad Wasim contracted to Otago?

 

[southern man]

Wasim is down here long term.
Yea i think he will be kicking himself that he got out to Matt Horne.

 

[Tim]

Craig Cumming going into that 4 dayer had absolutely no One Day form behind him, but I think he has showed which format he is best suited to.

 

[Richard]

Believe me, I would never suggest that his selection was a success. Or even justified.

I know, I didn't think you were.
I just have to laugh almost every time I hear someone mention that he's been selected yet again - for reasons I've mentioned.
It really is hilarious that someone in such a high position can make such a massive error of judgement on a player.
Well, two, because it's now been Hadlee and Bracewell.

 

[Richard]

Is that why our team is full of the players with the best averages in Couny Cricket then?

No, no, that's just because the selectors think they know better than the game itself.

 

[marc71178]

No, no, that's just because the selectors think they know better than the game itself.

No, it's selectors picking those they think will do a job in Test Cricket rather than those who do a job in County Cricket.

 

[Richard]

And because generally those who do the best job in First-Class-cricket tend to be those who do the best job in Test-cricket it's the selectors making decisions for the wrong reasons.
Thinking they know better than the game, in fact.

 

[Rik]

And because generally those who do the best job in First-Class-cricket tend to be those who do the best job in Test-cricket it's the selectors making decisions for the wrong reasons.
Thinking they know better than the game, in fact.

Got to agree here:

Trescothick was scoring well for Somerset when picked.

Butcher was scoring well for Surrey when picked.

Harmison wasn't performing for Durham when he was picked and his stats show a huge bias to weaker teams and a very poor record against the stronger ones. And no Marc, you don't have to comment on this point exclusively.

Read was picked because he was scoring well for Notts and opening the batting in OD cricket and scoring well, he then went to the Academy and continued to impress.

Basically most of England's players have performed in County Cricket and been called up or have gone to the Academy to continue their development. The only real success who was picked after a poor season was Vaughan who was picked for the tour of South Africa after averaging 27 in FC cricket for Yorkshire. But it took him years to score consistantly and even now he seems to be on a slump.

 

[marc71178]

Trescothick was scoring well for Somerset when picked.

Not particularly well.

Harmison wasn't performing for Durham when he was picked and his stats show a huge bias to weaker teams and a very poor record against the stronger ones. And no Marc, you don't have to comment on this point exclusively.

Define "stronger"

Read was picked because he was scoring well for Notts and opening the batting in OD cricket and scoring well, he then went to the Academy and continued to impress.

What about 1st time he was picked then?