Almost nearly but not quite ATG XI discussion

[wpdavid]

To qualify players must have had at least a semi decent Test career but must not be a candidate for an ATG XI.

England XI

Amiss
Broad
Lamb
Fletcher
Gatting
D'Oliveira
Parks
Giles
Voce
Dilley
Allen

There's a lot of English players who could be picked for this thread, as we tend not to produce ATGs. As evidenced by any discussion of an all-time England side usually settling on about 15 players.
Whether your list is close enough to not quite being ATGs is debateable - I suspect Howezat got closer to my way of thinking with his more recent line-up.

fwiw
Amiss & Broad - OK. Maybe Alec Stewart though. Also John Edrich.
Fletcher - absolutely not, and I don't give a monkeys about his final test average. Never did a thing when the living was anything other than easy.
Lamb & Gatting - maybe but Hussain and Thorpe also with claims.
Dolly & Parks - OK. Maybe Greig as the allrounder.
Giles and Allen are lucky to be there, even assuming that Laker, Lock, Underwood and Swann are regarded as ATGs. Wardle maybe?
Lots of options with the quicks, assuming Larwood, Snow and Trueman are ATG. Willis, Gough, Fraser, Statham all spring to mind.

 

[Red]

For England I'd go something like

Alec Stewart
Marcus Trescothick
Michael Vaughan
Mike Gatting
Allan Lamb
Tony Greig
Trevor Bailey
Bob Taylor +
Tony Lock
Darren Gough
Brian Statham

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There's a lot of English players who could be picked for this thread, as we tend not to produce ATGs. As evidenced by any discussion of an all-time England side usually settling on about 15 players.
Whether your list is close enough to not quite being ATGs is debateable - I suspect Howezat got closer to my way of thinking with his more recent line-up.

fwiw
Amiss & Broad - OK. Maybe Alec Stewart though. Also John Edrich.
Fletcher - absolutely not, and I don't give a monkeys about his final test average. Never did a thing when the living was anything other than easy.
Lamb & Gatting - maybe but Hussain and Thorpe also with claims.
Dolly & Parks - OK. Maybe Greig as the allrounder.
Giles and Allen are lucky to be there, even assuming that Laker, Lock, Underwood and Swann are regarded as ATGs. Wardle maybe?
Lots of options with the quicks, assuming Larwood, Snow and Trueman are ATG. Willis, Gough, Fraser, Statham all spring to mind.

My XI wasn't intended as an exercise of eliminating all time greats and then picking the definitive next best side. It's just a group of players off the top of my head who had decent careers without being in the upper echelon. As far as I'm concerned the likes of Stewart, Willis, Statham and even Greig and Edrich are top drawer. In hindsight it might have been better to not to use the ATG abbreviation and just said they mustn't be candidates for their country's or a world all time XI. Although I don't agree with them I've seen credible cricket writers include Stewart, Willis and Statham in their all time XI's.

The whole thing really started as a bit of a spoof at a time when everything thread was going down the ATG route, hence the daft title.

 

[Flametree]

I like to stick some sort of limits on the averages for this sort of exercise... so a sub-40 batting line-up (keeper sub 30) with a post-30 bowling line up... a team of decent test players who wouldn't get too near their ATG xi's. Something like :

Majid Khan, Atherton, Gomes, Hughes K, Lamb, Coney, Jacobs *, Sarfraz Nawaz, Mushtaq Ahmed, Nel, Hoggard