Big 3 killing cricket stone dead

[Skyliner]

Another Ashes series. There's one of these every year, always 5 tests.
It's just selfishness on the part of England and Australia. South Africa are the number one side in world cricket and they only ever get 3 test series's in Australia - apparently due to ICC guidelines. Who is the ICC? India / England / Australia. So you have a side which over the years has had the likes of Steyn, Kallis, Smith, Morkel being treated like a second rate nation. Is it any wonder test audiences are declining in SA?
England were an uncompetitive rabble between 1989 and 2005, but the glut of tests against Australia they were still allowed to play over this period allowed their players to steal a march on every other nation apart from Australia, and eventually get back to parity (temporarily) with Australia. Meanwhile if a side like NZ shows that they are an uncompetitive rabble, their series get degraded to 2 tests and they get pilloried. Their last tour to Australia was tied at 1-1, so they never to get to play a decider. They never get a chance to go through that and get anywhere near parity with the kind of experience that English players get.

The selfish big 3 concentrate on their icon series's, and everyone else can go to hell. The big 3 should be pouring money into the Windies game via ICC, and gutless Australia and England should have fought the good fight on behalf of smaller nations, instead of meekly capitulating to India. India sue a bankrupt Windies for USD 54 million and their Big 3 partners say nothing. Moral cowardice. This is despite in being well known that India just scheduled another tour by Sri Lanka and suffered no material loss. Do the Big 3 want Windies cricket to die completely? The **** Forrel series is already totally devalued, why not keep putting the boot in.

The IPL season cuts right across the back end of the NZ international season and right through the Windies season. NZ have players turning up for test cricket virtually the night before a match starts, while all the better Windies players are lost to the IPL. No wonder the Windies are being humiliated on a regular basis.All very well to blame their board, but their board has issues to deal with that England and Australia are insulated and protected from by their suck-up relationship with India. Is this acceptable, that international cricket is reduced to a B Grade product? Why not have the IPL in July, right in the heart of the English summer, or November - right when Australia are beginning their home test programme. Then let's see the 'franchise before country' shenanigans that erupt. But right now it's countries in the Big 3 family looking down their noses at NZ and Windies players and saying "oh, they are poor, no wonder they choose the IPL". No, they have the IPL driven right through their home summers like a stake.

Australia and England have ensured themselves advantages that other nations don't have, they play many more tests, they have their home seasons protected, they have carved up the pie in conjunction with India. How is this different to cheating, to rorting the commonwealth of cricket playing nations? Where is the level playing field that allows the 'smaller' nations to compete? Rather than recieve the assistance they need, the 'smaller' nations actually have the deck increasingly stacked against them.

What other commonwealth sport does this happen in? The likes of Scotland and Ireland have never beaten the All Blacks; should NZ brush them? Australia are crap at rugby; should NZ refuse to play them for a decade?

Is the cricketing community a family or is just the Big 3 and everyone else be damned? 2 tests for a good NZ side that drew with England last time they were in NZ, so that Australia and England can play yet another 5 test series? What a damned disgrace.

 

[Red]

I want healthy test cricket, but there's not many other sports where one nation is expected to prop another nation up financially, so why should "the big 3" prop up the small nations?

Why invite mediocre sides to play tests that you'll win in 3 days? Etc etc.

Every nation's cricket board needs to ensure their own nation's competitiveness. They aren't responsible for other nations, surely.

 

[Riggins]

lol

 

[straw man]

a) how do you manage to be so relentlessly negative?
b) PARAGRAPHS

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Skyliner, you are one of my favourite posters on here. But I think you got a few facts wrong.

The IPL does not really encroach too much on NZ's season. Its April and May isnt it? It clashes more with the English summer. NZ gets poorly treated by having to qualify its team for the Champions League. But then the warm up games counteract this by warming the team up given its September and October.

IPL is almost perfect timing for NZ.

South Africa has also been upgraded to four test series with India, England and Australia. Its previous Australian series had a reciprocal tour, and they were are both southern hemisphere teams.

Sri Lanka, Pakistan and New Zealand and poorly treated by the ICC. West Indies, in my opinion, is treated better than New Zealand with the amount of cricket available. The West Indies will have to work its way around the IPL and County cricket to survive, and that is unfortunate for them. I wonder if they could work around the seasons given their climate. they could clash more with the New Zealand and Australian summer if they wanted I suspect.

But Red Hill, by hijacking the ICC, India supported by Australia and England's vote has assumed responsibility for the other nations. That is what the ICC did previously. New Zealand, West Indies, Pakistan and Sri Lanka rely on such nations to keep international cricket alive. So too the lesser teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. The India media dollar is essential to keeping cricket alive in all those aforementioned countries. If India rules like a hegemon in a free market place, international cricket will suffer in such countries.

Australia and England used to rule the ICC with a veto power till about 1992, then it became a democracy, now its the big three. The ICC is toothless. If you think its all about self responsibility for the Cricket Boards, international cricket will become as a competitive as international rugby league. Imagine a cricket history without Lara, Richards, Hadlee, Murali, Sangakarra, Khan, Mianidad. Personally, I thought at the outset of the last world cup that only three teams were in it that could win it. South Africa, NZ and Australia as favourites. Two of the big three had no chance of winning in my opinion.

If the big three run international cricket like a pure free market, it will be 3 teams repeatedly playing each other and minnows talking about the eras when they were competitive. If that is what you think is best for cricket, then good for you. I don't think it is. And don't tell me for one second that you really want to watch the West Indies as opposed to New Zealand this summer. I will not believe you. And the Ashes for the 1989 - 2004 years were hardly competitive...

 

[Skyliner]

I want healthy test cricket, but there's not many other sports where one nation is expected to prop another nation up financially, so why should "the big 3" prop up the small nations?

Why invite mediocre sides to play tests that you'll win in 3 days? Etc etc.

Every nation's cricket board needs to ensure their own nation's competitiveness. They aren't responsible for other nations, surely.

No, I don't advocate other cricket boards propping up small nations. I advocate the Big 3 acting as custodians of the game and ensuring that nations in desperate on need of assistance recieve it. The Windies is dying, and the last thing they need is to be sued for USD 54 million just because they are in disarray. When will the BCCI have enough money? How greedy do you have to be?

When England were mediocre between 1989 and 2005, i.e. for a decade and a half, they didn't get bumped down to 2 test series's by Australia.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

No, I don't advocate other cricket boards propping up small nations. I advocate the Big 3 acting as custodians of the game and ensuring that nations in desperate on need of assistance recieve it. The Windies is dying, and the last thing they need is to be sued for USD 54 million just because they are in disarray. When will the BCCI have enough money? How greedy do you have to be?

When England were mediocre between 1989 and 2005, i.e. for a decade and a half, they didn't get bumped down to 2ntest series's by Australia.

Its not about the money for the BCCI. You know it and I know it. 54 USD is not much to them. They get $500USD million from the ICC. That is about control and bringing the West Indies into line. Letting them know who is in charge.

I don't necessarily have a problem with India in charge, they have the biggest paying fan base. But as you say, custodians of the game and all that.

England historically took its role as a custodian of the game rather seriously and supported the smaller and poorer nations.

 

[Skyliner]

Skyliner, you are one of my favourite posters on here. But I think you got a few facts wrong.

The IPL does not really encroach too much on NZ's season. Its April and May isnt it? It clashes more with the English summer. NZ gets poorly treated by having to qualify its team for the Champions League. But then the warm up games counteract this by warming the team up given its September and October.

IPL is almost perfect timing for NZ.

South Africa has also been upgraded to four test series with India, England and Australia. Its previous Australian series had a reciprocal tour, and they were are both southern hemisphere teams.

Sri Lanka, Pakistan and New Zealand and poorly treated by the ICC. West Indies, in my opinion, is treated better than New Zealand with the amount of cricket available.

But Red Hill, by hijacking the ICC, India supported by Australia and England's vote has assumed responsibility for the other nations. That is what the ICC did previously. New Zealand, West Indies, Pakistan and Sri Lanka rely on such nations to keep international cricket alive. So too the lesser teams like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. The India media dollar is essential to keeping cricket alive in all those aforementioned countries. If India rules like a hegemon in a free market place, international cricket will suffer in such countries.

Australia and England used to rule the ICC with a veto power till about 1992, then it became a democracy, now its the big three. The ICC is toothless. If you think its all about self responsibility for the Cricket Boards, international cricket will become as a competitive as international rugby league. Imagine a cricket history without Lara, Richards, Hadlee, Murali, Sangakarra, Khan, Mianidad. Personally, I thought at the outset of the last world cup that only three teams were in it that could win it. South Africa, NZ and Australia as favourites. Two of the big three had no chance of winning in my opinion.

If the big three run international cricket like a pure free market, it will be 3 teams repeatedly playing each other and minnows talking about the eras when they were competitive. If that is what you think is best for cricket, then good for you. I don't think it is. And don't tell me for one second that you really want to watch the West Indies as opposed to New Zealand this summer. I will not believe you. And the Ashes for the 1989 - 2004 years were hardly competitive...

The most recent IPL season began on 8 April. Prior to the IPL the NZ season would often extend into April. Now series's have to be curtailed prior to the end of March to give players time to join their franchises and acclimatise.

It's even worse for NZ this summer. We are faced with a series against Australia at home that will either be 3 tests and zero ODIs, or an unsatisfactory 2 tests and 3 ODIs. Why one or the other, and not 3 tests and 3 ODIs? Because the T20 World Cup has been scheduled right in the guts of NZs home summer....the tournament kicks off on 11 March. So the matches against Australia have to be shoe-horned in and we get scoffed at for potentially scrapping a test match. Other nations don't have to match these excruciating choices. Schedule the T20 WC for June in India, and listen to England squeal. But it would never happen.

You mention England and Australia are sticking up for smaller nations in their dealings with India. Where is the evidence? It seems the smaller nations continue to be the ones that have their seasons encroached on and their international matches eroded.
Where is the Test Championship that has now been postponed twice. Have England and Australia got any traction on that, have they even tried? Maybe they think it would impinge on their precious Ashes in some way. Never mind that it could be the saving grace for test crickets future.
All I see is short sighted self interest, and some false claims to be assisting other nations.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

The most recent IPL season began on 8 April. Prior to the IPL the NZ season would often extend into April. Now series's have to be curtailed prior to the end of March to give players time to join their franchises and acclimatise.
It's even worse for NZ this summer. We are faced with a series against Australia at home that will either be 3 tests and zero ODIs, or an unsatisfactory 2 tests and 3 ODIs. Why one or the other, and not 3 tests and 3 ODIs? Because the T20 World Cup has been scheduled right in the guts of NZs home summer....the tournament kicks off on 11 March. So the matches against Australia have to be shoe-horned in and we get scoffed at for potentially scrapping a test match. Other nations don't have to match these excruciating choices. Schedule the T20 WC for June in India, and listen to England squeal. But it would never happen.

You mention England and Australia are sticking up for smaller nations in their dealings with India. Where is the evidence? It seems the smaller nations continue to be the ones that have their seasons encroached on and their international matches eroded. Where is the Test Championship that has now been postponed twice. Have England and Australia got any traction on that, have they even tried? Maybe they think it would impinge on their precious Ashes in some way. Never mind that it could be the saving grace for test crickets future. All I see is short sighted self interest.

I have no issue with the ICC tournaments. India tours and ICC tournaments pay NZ's bills, South Africa's bills, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. They go a long way to paying Australia and England's bills too. April in NZ is rugby time these days besides the point. NZ just needs to start its summer earlier, which it can due to the climate. But we should be aiming to have more international and high class cricket in the holiday period regardless.

Australia only making a short tour here is Australia's choice. It is because the summers overlap. They have to get through their 6 or 7 home tests at a competing time plus its pyjama cricket schedule. Then come to NZ. They are not going to have a short Australian summer to accomodate longer tours of NZ. That won't happen.

I don't mention England and Australia sticking up for smaller nations against India. I said they should if required, because noone else can.

 

[Skyliner]

a) how do you manage to be so relentlessly negative?
b) PARAGRAPHS

I don't think real problems and chronic imbalances in this sport should be ignored. If promoting a discussion is negative, so be it.
What is the point of the forum; to have "I think Jeets is great" / "well I think Jeets is useless" pointless go nowhere discussions.
Surely we could talk about the growing divide between the haves and the have nots, and not bury our heads in the sand.
We've got boards pushing for 4 day and day/night cricket while at the same time scheduling 5 test series of traditional day cricket.
Bring in the Test Championship and have all nations play as per a common format.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

NZ can't start it's cricket season uniformly earlier across the country. Auckland/Northern Districts even Canterbury might be fine for cricket in mid/late September - early October but you certainly can't get any decent quality cricket played in Wellington in those months. A few years back, we didn't get in our first club match until late November and the grass hadn't been cut and was an inch and a half long off the wicket. Cracking game that was.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Skyliner, you keep mentioning June and July in India.

	ANNUAL	JAN	FEB	MAR	APR	MAY	JUN	JUL	AUG	SEP	OCT	NOV	DEC	YEARS	# CITIES
Average Precipitation (in)	49.9	0.6	0.7	0.9	1.6	3	7.8	12.1	10.8	7.2	3.3	1.3	0.6	93	671
* Years is the average number of years used to compute the average. # Cities is the total number of locations used to compute the average.

It's called an almanac.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Australia have played Tests in Darwin out of season - I think against Bangladesh. Is there any City in India where the climate is dry in the June - August season which could be used for longer series against smaller nations?

 

[Skyliner]

I have no issue with the ICC tournaments. India tours and ICC tournaments pay NZ's bills, South Africa's bills, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. They go a long way to paying Australia and England's bills too. April in NZ is rugby time these days besides the point. NZ just needs to start its summer earlier, which it can due to the climate. But we should be aiming to have more international and high class cricket in the holiday period regardless.

Australia only making a short tour here is Australia's choice. It is because the summers overlap. They have to get through their 6 or 7 home tests at a competing time plus its pyjama cricket schedule. Then come to NZ. They are not going to have a short Australian summer to accomodate longer tours of NZ. That won't happen.

I don't mention England and Australia sticking up for smaller nations against India. I said they should if required, because noone else can.

Do you honestly think I have an issue with ICC tournaments? I have an issue with IPL / ICC tournaments cutting into when we or WI would be playing our home test matches. My point is that this tournament would never be scheduled for June or July, when England are into their summer programme, unless England were hosting.

On the Australian tour, over half of March is gone, and there is not enough time available. That's got nothing to do with over-lapping summers or anything else. They have scheduled the tournament at the time when we play our test matches. The best weather for cricket in NZ is Feb / March when the weather is settled.

 

[Skyliner]

It's called an almanac.

Cool G I Joe, so November looks ideal for the IPL then. Not this year as its already been staged, but starting in 2016.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Australia have played Tests in Darwin out of season - I think against Bangladesh. Is there any City in India where the climate is dry in the June - August season which could be used for longer series against smaller nations?

Not really. The coverage is pretty comprehensive. It would be playing the lottery even in the regions that get scanty rainfall.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Cool G I Joe, so November looks ideal for the IPL then. Not this year as its already been staged, but starting in 2016.

Nope, that's prime festival season. It would be akin to Aus/SA shelving international cricket for a T20 gig over Christmas/New Years.

 

[Skyliner]

Nope, that's prime festival season. It would be akin to Aus/SA shelving international cricket for a T20 gig over Christmas/New Years.

It doesn't get any bigger than T20 in India. Have you heard of the Boxing Day Test over the Xmas/New Years period? It involves test cricket, which is to Australian's what T20 is to Indians. Therefore your argument doesn't stack up.
C'mon India, we all have to make some sacrifices. Other nations are sacrificing their international players, their test programmes and their standing in the game. You can work in a festival here, an IPL game there... no biggie.

 

[G.I.Joe]

It doesn't get any bigger than T20 in India. Have you heard of the Boxing Day Test over the Xmas/New Years period? It involves test cricket, which is to Australian's what T20 is to Indians. Therefore your argument doesn't stack up.
C'mon India, we all have to make some sacrifices. Other nations are sacrificing their international players, their test programmes and their standing in the game. You can work in a festival here, an IPL game there... no biggie.

Your arguments contradict each other.

If T20 is to India what Test cricket is to Australia, why haven't the BCCI slotted the IPL into the November period already? They're not dumb when it comes to optimising revenue by playing around with schedules.

If staging the IPL over November is meant to be a necessary sacrifice on India's part as you claim, then it logically follows that the IPL isn't the best use of that period on the calendar for India.

 

[Skyliner]

Your arguments contradict each other.

If T20 is to India what Test cricket is to Australia, why haven't the BCCI slotted the IPL into the November period already? They're not dumb when it comes to optimising revenue by playing around with schedules.

If staging the IPL over November is meant to be a necessary sacrifice on India's part as you claim, then it logically follows that the IPL isn't the best use of that period on the calendar for India.

I certainly agree that the BCCI are not dumb when it comes to optimising revenues, to an extraordinary degree. Although CapnGrumpy says India sueing WI is all about pulling WI into line, I reckon it's another revenue grap by a board blinded by greed.
Also, if our equivalent of 'festival season' is prime time for cricket in the Southern Hemisphere - the holiday atmosphere and cricket go hand in hand - then wouldn't it also follow that the same could be true for India? It could be a great time for India to stage these matches.
It would never be November because that would impinge on the home summer of fellow Big 3 club member Australia. Australia are another sacred cow.