Is bowling really fast (90mph and over) natural or a learned skill?

[CaptainGrumpy]

And Warne.
And McGrath.
And Hayden.
And Hodge.

Don't make me post a Watson article too (please). And, y'know, KP.

McGrath was right. Australia was undefeated? They like thrashed everyone. He was also player of the series. What did he overhype?

 

[Top_Cat]

Guess it depends on your definition of 'hype'. Muhammed Ali hyped himself for Zaire and won it too, doesn't change that it was ridiculous(ly awesome).

Besides which, it's not the only example.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Be careful when you mention his name. His ex-coach will google search by his name, revisit CW, and destroy your e-career.

ponty

 

[duffer]

Nah, Shaun Tait is a better example.

Still remember the Perth test that India won in 2008. The Australian journalists were bigging him up as if he bowls faster than the wind, and he can easily have the incompetent flat-track bully Indian batsmen for breakfast, lunch and dinner if he just moves a muscle. What a disaster he turned out to be once the test started! Sprayed all around the wicket; the uppercuts from Tendulkar just gloriously destroyed the overhyped ****.

And it repeated in the 2011 World Cup quarter-final IIRC.

Remember the build up to that match well. "Get the ambulances ready!". Heh, what cringe.

 

[King Pietersen]

Be careful when you mention his name. His ex-coach will google search by his name, revisit CW, and destroy your e-career.

Yep. Watch out. If you say Atul Sharma three times into a mirror, John Daly's stunt-double will suddenly appear and threaten to sue you.

 

[Cric123]

Just to counter the idea that being too burly can reduce pace, what about Jaques Kallis? He was reaching up to 92-93mph in some spells for a few years in the 2000s. I don't think pace came naturally to him but the powerful body and shoulders did a lot of the work in generating the pace. Shane Watson is another. He was in the high 80s-90mph for a while a few years back. Andrew Flintoff is another who relied on the body rather than natural talent for fast bowling. For a few years 2004-2007, I remember he was bowling as quick as anyone, regularly topping 90mph, reaching 94-95mph.

 

[YorksLanka]

A SR of 45 and an average of 25.7. Cannot have all been tosh or were the batsmen scared of his tosh?

Yes those are his stats but on the field, do you really think he made the most of the pace he had?personally I thought Lee was much more effective with similar pace..

 

[YorksLanka]

Woah I disagree with that. Shoaib was probably the fastest ever, but pace wasn't his only weapon. Was amazing with reverse. Shoaib doesn't get enough credit imo... was petty awesome.

Yes true BUT was he as good as Waqar who bowled with similar pace? No which brings me back to the point that others have made, pace isn't everything...

 

[Pratters]

But could it also be the nature of pitches? Australia has always relied on quick bouncy tracks and therefore the need to bowl fast is an asset.

This is a nice point. In Australia, bowling fast is an asset. In England, you can take wickets if you can swing the ball well. If you bowl fast and not bowl too well, it will go for a lot of runs in England as it's smaller grounds. As a young fast bowler, one would focus more on swing than bowling at tearaway pace you would think, most often.

 

[Pratters]

Yes true BUT was he as good as Waqar who bowled with similar pace? No which brings me back to the point that others have made, pace isn't everything...

Are apples as tasty as oranges?

Shoaib was amazing because of not just pace at his best. The same can be said for Waqar. Both were amazing at their best.

 

[Pratters]

Pace bowling is a natural skill but you need to hone it to consistently bowl 90 mph. Else, the player will either not be able to make the jump from 85 to 90 mph. Or, the pace will drop rapidly after a few years. There has to be lots of training, muscle building and understanding of the science and the body. Fast bowlers need to be treated with so much care.

 

[Cric123]

Shoaib's main asset was pace. He beat people for pace, but take away a few mph and he would be rather useless. Waqar was in a different league to him. Very few people could bowl fast and manipulate the ball as much as he did.

 

[Cric123]

Yes true BUT was he as good as Waqar who bowled with similar pace? No which brings me back to the point that others have made, pace isn't everything...

I don't think Waqar was quick as Shoaib. Shoaib had about 5mph on Waqar but Waqar was the far superior bowler.

 

[Pratters]

Shoaib's main asset was pace. He beat people for pace, but take away a few mph and he would be rather useless. Waqar was in a different league to him. Very few people could bowl fast and manipulate the ball as much as he did.

Comparing Shoaib to Waqar, who were different types of bowlers confuses the issue. Shoaib relied on pace but pace was not his only weapon. If it was just pace, would he and Brett Lee not have similar records? Shoaib was a far better test bowler when he did turn up compared to Lee, say. Or Shaun Tait.

Shoaib was a pace bowler, so obviously pace will be his main asset. That's like saying - 'spin was Warne's main asset. Take away 5 degrees of spin and how good would even Warne be'.

 

[Cric123]

I would like to see Brett Lee's bowling average from the first five years in FC cricket and first three in tests. I think injuries ruined his career because, if I recall correctly, there was talk early in his career that he was going to be one of the greatest fast bowlers of all time, both in terms of speed and bowling figures. I wouldn't hesitate to say a 21-22 year old Brett Lee was better than Shoaib at his peak.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Just to counter the idea that being too burly can reduce pace, what about Jaques Kallis? He was reaching up to 92-93mph in some spells for a few years in the 2000s. I don't think pace came naturally to him but the powerful body and shoulders did a lot of the work in generating the pace. Shane Watson is another. He was in the high 80s-90mph for a while a few years back. Andrew Flintoff is another who relied on the body rather than natural talent for fast bowling. For a few years 2004-2007, I remember he was bowling as quick as anyone, regularly topping 90mph, reaching 94-95mph.

The strong lean but wiry figures seem to be more successful fast bowlers (still have injuries - eg Lillee) and bowl very fast than burly people like Mitch McClenaghan, who often, not always, struggle with injuries. This will influence the changes to their technique over time. Fred Trueman was fast and burly. But how many can you think of who were burly and genuinely fast?

Think you misunderstood the burly part. I'll take some of the blame for any ambiguity in the post. It does not say burly people cannot be fast or being burly reduces pace. It says burly fast bowlers are more injury prone than lean fast bowlers and change their technique and often slow down accordingly (or retire prematurely).

Jacques Kallis was a part time bowler.

Flintoff retired young due to injuries.

Watson has had an injury wrecked career and as you say has slowed down. Perfect example.

Corey Anderson is one who I suspect that his physical frame will not stand up to a test career of serious bowling. I said and thought that before he was injured in England. McCleanaghan is borderline "burly" so no point in saying people leaner than him.

The reasons behind it are not the most difficult science.

The weight put on ankles and knees in delivery stride is a factor of body weight. Any counter rotation and pressure put on hips and joints is influenced by body weight. I imagine it is similar for back muscles.

A guy like Merv Hughes would have put his body through sheer agony. Was he even really that fast? He is never spoken about as being express.

Thankyou.

 

[Pratters]

I would like to see Brett Lee's bowling average from the first five years in FC cricket and first three in tests. I think injuries ruined his career because, if I recall correctly, there was talk early in his career that he was going to be one of the greatest fast bowlers of all time, both in terms of speed and bowling figures. I wouldn't hesitate to say a 21-22 year old Brett Lee was better than Shoaib at his peak.

Brett Lee was not consistent with his lines. Shoaib was.

 

[Shri]

Also, didn't Wahab Riaz increase his speed from 120 to 150 over the course of a few years? A player couldn't do that if it was all natural ability.

Steroids man.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's all bout that meat. Eating meat increases your pace by atleast 10mph, gives you better wrist position, the ability to not bowl filthy deliveries every over, and most importantly, gives you a brain.

#PoorVeggieIndians

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

It's all bout that meat. Eating meat increases your pace by atleast 10mph, gives you better wrist position, the ability to not bowl filthy deliveries every over, and most importantly, gives you a brain.

#PoorVeggieIndians

More specifically its beef. Fish, lamb and chicken just do not have the pace increase or wrist position or the ability to not bowl filthy overs or brain development he way beef does.

Who cares that there is more omega 3 in fish, or that lamb is a red meat. Rogan Josh bad, Beef Vindaloo good.