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Thread: "Doctored" pitches

  1. #106
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    In terms of a wicket?
    An away-swinger that hits the outside-edge and goes in the air to a fielder. Or an in-swinging Yorker that hits the toe and would have been going onto the stumps or hits the stumps direct. Or an in-swinger that takes a thin inside-edge and goes to a fielder (usually the wicketkeeper). Or an in-dipper that pitches outside off and hits off.
    In terms of just a good ball; anything that doesn't go off the middle of the bat to the boundary. Anything that does can't really be good bowling.
    so really any bowler, not matter how successful they are,if they dont move the ball that much (for example Joel Garner,Jeff Thomson,Glen McGrath...and in the early days of Holding...probably plenty of others),they just dont deserve the wicket. You see I see accuarcy as being the most fundamental aspect of bowling,accuracy is the number one getter of wickets in cricket...and McGrath or Garner were deadly accurate..and in my opinion deserve every bit of success they got..ok the odd time they might have been a tad lucky,so is every bowler..some times they have been unlucky..it evens itself out.
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  2. #107
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Originally posted by prithvi
    well, no offence taken at the national-stereotype, but uve written off my opinion just coz of ur view that pitches in india offer more turn, and thats a little disappointing. by that very argument, i must say ive seen more spin bowling coz india breeds more spinners. also a lot of pitches are actually so flat in india that it doesnt aid spin bowlers too, contrary to popular perception. and ive seen some good spinners troubling batsmen with their loop and not so much with their spin/turn in domestic cricket. and another thing, a really good spinner needs the ball to turn only a little - little enough to take an edge and not too much where it would beat the bat. so 'significant turn' is not necessary to offer a threat.
    It is.
    Significant turn is enough to beat and catch the outside-edge.
    Insignificant turn is enough to make the ball outer part of the bat instead of the full face, but that's never going to result in dismissal if the ball's being aimed on the ground.
    If you've seen spinners troubling good batsmen with loop and dip in domestic cricket, good for you - I haven't seen much of it in international cricket.
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  3. #108
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    I don't see much of it.
    You see, batsmen have to make an error, and plenty of batsmen are good enough not to make that error.
    i have seen plenty of great batsmen fall to a well flighted ball

  4. #109
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    It is.
    Significant turn is enough to beat and catch the outside-edge.
    Insignificant turn is enough to make the ball outer part of the bat instead of the full face, but that's never going to result in dismissal if the ball's being aimed on the ground.
    If you've seen spinners troubling good batsmen with loop and dip in domestic cricket, good for you - I haven't seen much of it in international cricket.
    that is because you rarely see an off spinner using flight as a weapon these days


  5. #110
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    How often?
    And how many runs conceded during the interims?

  6. #111
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Swervy
    that is because you rarely see an off spinner using flight as a weapon these days
    If you ask me it's because it never worked in the first place, and the fact that nothing else works as much as it used to makes people assume that it's not being used.
    If something's such a useful weapon, I find it hard to believe that hardly anyone would use it.

  7. #112
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    How often?
    And how many runs conceded during the interims?
    It happened a lot more years ago, simply coz spinners (esp from the sub continent) back then used it a lot more.

    Bedi,Doshi,maninder all used flight with success...neither one was a big spinner of the ball.

  8. #113
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I point to the post above.

  9. #114
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    I point to the post above.

    its because one day cricket has basically drummed it out of people...these days an off spinner is really being used as a way of tying down one end..stopping the scoring,building pressure ....offies bowl with a flatter ball these days.

    It is a known fact that a ball that is coming towards a batsman at above eye level is a lot harder to judge in terms of path and speed than a ball at or below eye level. (an example of this principle is if you stand on a bridge over a motorway, it is a lot easier to judge the on coming cars speeds, then if you were just stood by the roadside).

    I would say that any offy that uses flight generously but intelligently will be successful even on pitches that offer only slight turn

  10. #115
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    That's a perfectly valid argument, except for one thing - spinners (those who bowl at 50 mph) are no real use in one-day cricket, as they're too slow - batsmen can use their feet, so even accurate bowling is not that dangerous to dispatch.
    Except, of course, if the ball is turning. And fingerspinners will only turn it on a small number of wickets outside the subcontinent.
    I don't see how one-day cricket can drum something out of someone when it's not working anyway - and in any case, a good bowler will be able to bowl in one way one day, different the next. For instance, bowl one way in the nets, different in the centre; one way in the one-day game, another in the First-Class.
    I've never actually checked-out the records of Bedi, Chandra and the other guy away from home; think I will do in a mo.
    Just to see if they really were as good as people thought they were at exploiting unhelpful conditions or whether they were just older Kumbles.

  11. #116
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    Originally posted by Richard
    If you ask me it's because it never worked in the first place, and the fact that nothing else works as much as it used to makes people assume that it's not being used.
    If something's such a useful weapon, I find it hard to believe that hardly anyone would use it.
    easier said than done. i think that quality among spinners has declined today and hence the ability to bowl flighted balls, which are accurate and trouble the batsman are rare. its like saying - "we all know yorkers are the best way to get wkts and contain batsman in the death, yet we dont see enough yorkers being bowled." does that mean that yorkers are not effective and hence bowlers dont bowl them, or that bowling them is so difficult that the ability to deliver them is lacking in todays bowlers ? the latter is the point i think swervy is trying to make and i agree with him.

  12. #117
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    The thing is, Yorkers have always been difficult - flight isn't exactly quite so.
    Very, very few bowlers have ever been able to bowl an over of pure Yorkers.
    The army of supposed flight-and-loop-as-a-wicket-taking-method bowlers has been much larger.

  13. #118
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    Originally posted by Richard
    The thing is, Yorkers have always been difficult - flight isn't exactly quite so.
    how would u know? ever tried both?
    i know this is ur personal opinion, but i wouldnt bet on too many people agreeing with it. but u say it with so much confidence - it sounds quite ridiculous to me.

  14. #119
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I've seen plenty of bowlers lob the ball up all the time, and batsmen not have any trouble with it.
    I've also seen countless bowlers try their best to aim in the blockhole and find it almost impossible to do right time after time.
    Personally I'm not very good at either.

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