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Andrew Symonds in contention for Test squad

Andre

International Regular
hourn said:
Good performances in first class cricket get you into the test team.

On that basis he's still behind Clarke, Hodge, Love, Husseys x 2 and Watson, and is probably about level with about 5 other guys........
On first class performance, he's lightyears ahead of Clarke and a fair way ahead of Shane Watson.

He has the talent no doubt. just not the temperemant or technique yet.
Judging on his innings in the first VB Series game, the opening game of the World Cup and the World Cup semi-final when he has batted Australia out of trouble and in a nutshell won them the game, I'm willing to say he has got the temprament.

His technique isn't as bad as made out either.

IMHO, he'd be an excellent Test cricketer.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
It's quite interisting people are saying that he should be behind Clarke and Watson simply because ODI performances don't count for anything...

Right, well Clarke has had this huge imaginary push for the Test side based purely on ODI performances. I'm still pretty sure Clarke has a fair way to go before he goes on the Test Tour to Sri Lanka, since his ODI record has steadily dropped and there are players like Love ahead of him. Symonds has performed consistantly in ODIs in the last year, scoring 1000 runs if I'm not mistaken! Clarke is nowhere near, but anyway he's out of this because he's not an all-rounder. Basically Symonds should go because he's proven he's of International standard over the last year, but if you look at Watson's performances they hardly call for an immediate re-call. Now I rarely agree that performances in one form of the game should guarantee a place in the other, there are too many players who just haven't made the jump, but sometimes, consistant and solid performances such as Symonds' and Trescothick's point towards a player who could do very well. Still I see Symonds only as a part-timer with the ball...but on any basis he wins.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
hourn said:
i'd expect Clarke to go on the tour and Love will go if they take two replacement batsmen
I would've thought Love is still ahead of Clarke in the pecking order.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
I would've thought Love is still ahead of Clarke in the pecking order.
Especially after Clarke's performance in the VB series...
 

Top_Cat

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You guys saying Symonds hasnt got the temperament to play Test cricket are really sure of yourselves considering he hasn't even been given a go yet. Just a tad unfair to write him off based on the fact that until this point he has been picked as a ODI specialist.

Temperament? How many vital innings has Symonds played in tough circumstances since the beginning of the WC? 143 against Pakistan when Aus were 4/bugger all; 88* in the semi-final against Sri Lanka on a dicey deck after they'd lost quick wickets and numerous innings this year where Australia were in spots of bother and he delivered.

As for Ponting's favoratism, grow up. Ponting's no fool and would certainly not be one to put liking a player above the Test success of the team if he had any regard for his position as captain. He backed Symonds publically (considering he was a new captain, that took a bit of gumption) and he's repaid him with interest. I always rated Symonds as having great potential but got the feeling no-one actually backed him. With some faith, look how well he's done.

good performances in the ODI team don't get you into the Test team

Good performances in first class cricket get you into the Test team
Yes, performing in a WC in tight situations and since should definately be outweighed by big tons against state sides...........

Katich and Love were picked for the Test side on their FC records and performances no doubt. But how about Greg Blewett, Ricky Ponting, Darren Lehmann, Matthew Hayden (twice), Damien Martyn (the second time 'round), Adam Gilchrist, Damien Fleming, etc.?

If anything, the opposite is true in some cases; Martyn, for example, was picked before he had any international experience and struggled. He fought his way into the Test side on the strength of some great ODI performances. I get the feeling that International experience and performance is rated a little more highly than FC performances by the selectors anyway. A guy who belts hundreds at Pura Cup level is still an unknown quantity at international level. Someone who performs at ODI level has a case for a Test spot based on international experience. In my mind that far outweighs FC performances because even though it's 'only' ODI performances, it's still at an international level.

I know I'll get Michael Bevan thrown at me as one who has prospered at ODI level but not Tests but it's not as if he's not had chances. Symonds hasn't been given a chance and he's been written off. Aside from the fact I think that's incredibly harsh, how the heck would any of you know for sure whether he has the temperament to succeed? He has performance and technique down pat so how about giving him a chance??
 

PY

International Coach
All I can say is if he had chosen to play for England then he would have got 20+ Tests now IMO.

As T_C says, he has scored over 1000 ODI runs in last 35 matches since his first game of the World Cup at an average of 48.68. Pretty much shows me he has earned his chance in the Test side.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Very simple IMO - bowling not really worth consideration in selection; batsmen ahead of him: Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Lehmann, Katich, Love. Plus plenty of probables level with him.
I totally agree with those who say ODI runs don't earn credentials as a potential Test batsman.
Watson, meanwhile, surely has to be a better bet as an all-rounder in the Test-side, though his bowling is undoubtedly still far too wayward. And as for ODIs, it's ridiculous that he was picked ITFP.
 

Ford_GTHO351

U19 Vice-Captain
Mister Wright said:
Once again you have fallen into the trap of rating Symonds on what you have seen at ODI level. Unfortunately Syomonds' first class record is not all that impressive, but he has improved it over the last couple of years. Some of the centuries he has scored for Queensland have come at crucial times and have come regularly over the last couple of years. He has the application to succeed at Test level. His first-class record is far superior than his ODI or list 'a' one-day record and IMO is a far better player in the longer version of the game.

His bowling is not great, but he is a renowned partnership breaker at first class level and his medium pace is more than handy. In his last outing for Queensland he scored 102 & took 3-25 off 12 and he bowled a very consistent line and length and kept the batsman under pressure. While I don't think he should be selected over Love (who has been the most consistent batsman over the last 4-5 seasons) he would be not out of place in the test side.
No I haven't fallen for the trap of just looking at Symonds ODI record. I have firstly taken Symonds recent first class form into consideration. Even you have said that Symonds has improved at first class level.

You have to look at players who are performing at the moment.

For example: You just can't pick a player who may have had a brilliant record, but has failed in say the past three series.

Also, while ODI's and Tests are different, they are both international cricket and even Symonds recent ODI form has to have some bearing in a possible inclusion in the Test squad.
 

Ford_GTHO351

U19 Vice-Captain
hourn said:
Good performances in first class cricket get you into the test team.

On that basis he's still behind Clarke, Hodge, Love, Husseys x 2 and Watson, and is probably about level with about 5 other guys........
Though Symonds has performed well in first class matches recently for Queensland.

Though remember Symonds is in consideration for the Test Squad as an all-rounder and out of your list of players, only Watson is a (genuine) all-rounder and Watson has had recent injury troubles which have affected his bowling.
 

Ford_GTHO351

U19 Vice-Captain
Top_Cat said:
Yes, performing in a WC in tight situations and since should definately be outweighed by big tons against state sides...........

A guy who belts hundreds at Pura Cup level is still an unknown quantity at international level. Someone who performs at ODI level has a case for a Test spot based on international experience. In my mind that far outweighs FC performances because even though it's 'only' ODI performances, it's still at an international level.

He has performance and technique down pat so how about giving him a chance??
To perform at the WC, the biggest and most prestigous cricket competition, shows how Symonds can cope in big matches.

Yes I agree too that international experience counts for something.

I also agree that he should be given a chance in the test side.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ford_GTHO351 said:
Though remember Symonds is in consideration for the Test Squad as an all-rounder and out of your list of players, only Watson is a (genuine) all-rounder and Watson has had recent injury troubles which have affected his bowling.
I wouldn't rate Watson as a genuine all-rounder by any stretch of the imagination yet - his bowling is nowhere near the standard required.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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If Symonds gets into the Test team it would surely be as a batsman, because he's not an allrounder IMO, he's a batsman who bowls a bit. That said, aren't there better batsmen in Australia?
 

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
Symonds batting average FC is 41, proba be 1 or 2 lower if not for county cricket...

Clarke's is 39, hasn't played any county cricket yet, playing this season, should average a reasonable amount above that,

as for his performance this VB series, averages dont tell the whole story, look at where he has been batting, numbers - 6, 7, 7, 6, 7, 5, 4, 4, DNB (listed at 6) and 6.

he has hardly had the chance to get any consistancy going all summer - hes played just 2 FC matches this summer (and wont play any more) due to ODI side commitments - one of which (pura cup) he made 25 and 9, the other of which was against India 38* (44 balls) and 131* off just 140 balls. give him a descant chance to get some consistant FC cricket in.


as for Watsons AR abilities he is averaging well over 50 witrh that bat this season (career average with the bat of 45.73), and his previous efforts with that ball have been reasonable - an average of 26 (SR of 43)
 

Craig

World Traveller
Yes there are.

If Symonds comes in it would be Damian Richard Martyn as I would imagine Lehmann will be back and I doubt they would leave out Katich.
 

Andre

International Regular
Craig said:
Yes there are.

If Symonds comes in it would be Damian Richard Martyn as I would imagine Lehmann will be back and I doubt they would leave out Katich.
Need we repeat that Martyn will not be getting dropped :rolleyes:
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ford_GTHO351 said:
No I haven't fallen for the trap of just looking at Symonds ODI record. I have firstly taken Symonds recent first class form into consideration. Even you have said that Symonds has improved at first class level.

You have to look at players who are performing at the moment.

For example: You just can't pick a player who may have had a brilliant record, but has failed in say the past three series.

Also, while ODI's and Tests are different, they are both international cricket and even Symonds recent ODI form has to have some bearing in a possible inclusion in the Test squad.
I think you are a little confused, I was giving reasons why Symonds should be considered for the test side.
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
If Symonds gets into the Test team it would surely be as a batsman, because he's not an allrounder IMO, he's a batsman who bowls a bit. That said, aren't there better batsmen in Australia?
You are only going by what you have seen at ODI level, where there is much more pressure on your ten overs to keep the runs down whilst take wickets. His bowling in the first class arena is much different. He bowls a very consistent line and lenth and surprises the batsman with pace. He very rarely bowls off spin, he usually is only required to bowl off spin when there is no first choice spinner selected. I don't know how he goes in England, but for Queensland he usually bowls first change and has an immediate impact, whether it is keeping the runs down or getting an early breakthrough.
 

mavric41

State Vice-Captain
I don't think Lehmann will be picked for Sri Lanka unless he makes a big score. I think that they will experiment with Symonds in Sri Lanka. If he comes off, it will continue if not Lehmann slides back in for the home series.

I see the No. 6 spot being open for quite some time with players like Symonds, Love, Lehmann being in and out depending on the conditions. The selectors are waiting for Watson to come back as a bowler and he will slot in at 6. Clarke will take over Martyn's spot if gets dropped. This way we have 2 younger cricketers getting experiance and there won't be such a radical changing of the guard.

The test team for the 2005/2006 season

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn /Clarke
Katich
Symonds/Watson
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
Tait/Rofe/some other young quick
 

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