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Australia's Test Squad for England and West Indies

Riggins

International Captain
Lyon's probably got a fair argument for being the best non-subcontinental spinner in the world. Depends on whether you think that's a good achievement, or damning with faint praise.
Hopefully we get his inexplicable axing for a test or two over with in the West Indies and it doesn't happen in the Ashes.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Looking at the Australian domestic season stats for the year, is there a particular reason Australia doesn't look more favorably towards Steven O'Keefe? Not complaining about the Fawad selection, hard not to pick him after that season, but he is 33 years old already.

I honestly doubt Nathan Lyon is ever going to be anything more than a mediocre bowler for Australia, if even that, and O'Keefe seems like the way forward for their spin option given he averages 25 overall in FC cricket in the Australian pitches, a place that has hardly been friendly for spinners. Surely one bad game in the UAE doesn't mean his test career his sealed shut (where he outbowled Lyon btw).

It's not like he is an up and coming bowler getting prepped for the right moment either given he is 30 as well. He is also pretty decent with the bat too it seems.
Remember Lyon spinning us to victory in this test only 4 months ago?

1st Test: Australia v India at Adelaide, Dec 9-13, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Lyon isn't mediocre. He's a very good offspinner. And he's improving all the time in my opinion. Every time we've dropped him it's been a mistake.
 

BigBrother

U19 12th Man
Remember Lyon spinning us to victory in this test only 4 months ago?

1st Test: Australia v India at Adelaide, Dec 9-13, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Lyon isn't mediocre. He's a very good offspinner. And he's improving all the time in my opinion. Every time we've dropped him it's been a mistake.
Australia is Australia are the best players of spin actually, even better than India in India. So unless the domestic games turn into like a Mumbai or Dubai, I honestly doubt that. The last time you saw a oversees spinner rip through sides in Australia was back in....

I think that's really where the biggest weakness lies for Australia, the fact that someone like Lyon with a career average of about 36 is almost a guaranteed pick over a only a handful of performances at best. How do ever expect to be a good side all over the world if you set your standards that low? You need a bowler that can give you performances in more than just Adelaide.
:yawn:
 

Spark

Global Moderator
He's sure as hell a guaranteed pick over someone who doesn't actually turn the ball. Lyon's numbers are fine considering he (a) plays half his games in Australia where most visiting offspinners average 50+ and (b) had Matthew ****ing Wade keeping to him for half his Tests or s/t.

He does a job. He's no world-beater, but he holds up and end, builds pressure, and allows the quicks to attack, as Graeme Smith has said. We need to stop looking for magic gold dust that doesn't exist when we already have a world-class attack.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Better stats, daylights in longevity and quantity. Also believe NZ pitches are even less helpful for spinners than Australia, which is saying something.
Have we suddenly entered a time machine or something? Vettori has hardly played Test cricket in years.
 

BigBrother

U19 12th Man
Have we suddenly entered a time machine or something? Vettori has hardly played Test cricket in years.
He doesn't play test cricket anymore, as in period. Don't see how all those things still don't apply though as far their career goes.
 
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Spark

Global Moderator
He doesn't play test cricket anymore, as in period. Don't see how all those things still don't apply though as far their career goes.
I'm fairly (99.9%) sure we're only talking about current Test spinners, otherwise we might as well talk about Warne and Murali.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
So weird that in the past week Starc and Faulkner have been compared to Bracken.
Don't get the Starc comparison personally - as he has pace and more movement than Bracken did. Faulkner though, little bit quicker but well suited to a format where they have to score off your ten rather than see your clever changes of pace off with ease.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The domestic stats back O Keefe up, and yeah worst debuts and all that, but does he actually spin the ball? It didn't look like he did against Pakistan, maybe his stats are more to do with domestic Aussie batsmen not been much cop playing spin?

I like Lyon myself, never going to be Warne, but he has done pretty well, heck he won Australia the first test against india last year, I'd persist with him for now.
If selections had been fair and correct O'Keefe would have been playing Test cricket for the last 6-7 years. You really can't deny it. There must be some inside reasons he's not been selected.

Lyon isn't terrible though,

Better stats, daylights in longevity and quantity. Also believe NZ pitches are even less helpful for spinners than Australia, which is saying something.
Joking surely?
 

BigBrother

U19 12th Man
I'm fairly (99.9%) sure we're only talking about current Test spinners, otherwise we might as well talk about Warne and Murali.
Was quite aware of that, didn't really care. Was 99.9% sure you didn't care either in your initial post that I replied to but am a 100% sure you do now.
 

BigBrother

U19 12th Man
Don't get the Starc comparison personally - as he has pace and more movement than Bracken did. Faulkner though, little bit quicker but well suited to a format where they have to score off your ten rather than see your clever changes of pace off with ease.
Watching them bowl, Bracken looked far more threatening than Faulkner ever did. Bracken looked the talent, he looked like he might run through sides, which Faulkner doesn't.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
I don't think anyone can argue that SOK didn't get a raw deal but it's too late now. Lyon has a decent record so far and a massive ceiling for improvement given the turn and bounce he generates.
 

Antihippy

International Debutant
Watching them bowl, Bracken looked far more threatening than Faulkner ever did. Bracken looked the talent, he looked like he might run through sides, which Faulkner doesn't.
We weren't arguing about him running through sides though, and we don't really need him to considering we have MJ and Harris, not to mention starc/Hazelwood/Cummins/pattinson coming up. As an all rounder though if he can improve his batting he is a much better option than Watson or Mitch Marsh.
 

TheJediBrah

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Was quite aware of that, didn't really care. Was 99.9% sure you didn't care either in your initial post that I replied to but am a 100% sure you do now.
Ok then, so if we're not talking about current spinners than we'll go with Warne. But if we were only referring to current spinners I guess Lyon would be up there?

Either way Vettori's not in the picture.
 

BigBrother

U19 12th Man
Ok then, so if we're not talking about current spinners than we'll go with Warne. But if we were only referring to current spinners I guess Lyon would be up there?

Either way Vettori's not in the picture.
Still don't think you get it. In an one on one comparison between Vettori and Lyon (at this point in his career at least), I won't rank Lyon higher than him. Warne, Swann or whoever else has nothing to do with it.
 

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