Let's agree on a definition of "choke"

[Top_Cat]

Choking's one of those things; hard to agree on a solid or consistent definition but damn if you know what one looks like and you sure do know who is likely to suffer a sport-related occusion of the pharynx.

As for teams choking but finding a way to win, that's pretty easy. Hell, I can think of two in the same series; England at both Edgbaston and TB in 2005. Australia were dead and buried in both games* (even followed-on in TB) yet England let them back in late in the piece with some bone-headed cricket but still managed to claw their way to win in the end.

*Yes, yes, Marc, Kasper LBW, first ball, we know.

 

[akilana]

England in WC

 

[ImpatientLime]

England in WC

they're just a **** odi side.

 

[BeeGee]

I reckon the BCs kind of choked against Australia, but just managed to bring it home.

Kane Williamson with a timely Heimlich maneuver.

 

[BeeGee]

From Wikipedia:

Choke (sports) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In sports, a "choke" is the failure of an athlete or an athletic team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win or had squandered a large lead in the late stages of the event. Someone who chokes may be known as a "choker" or, more derisively, as a "choke artist." Choking in sport can be considered a form of analysis paralysis.

Seems like as good a definition as any.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Nah, it's a **** definition. They've basically defined an upset.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Choke= Collapsing mentally in a high pressure situation/match.

That's literally all there is to it.

 

[ankitj]

Choke= Collapsing mentally in a high pressure situation/match.

That's literally all there is to it.

Yeah, that's it. South Africa choked in 2007 semi. Period.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, that's it. South Africa choked in 2007 semi. Period.

Indeed. As did India's bowlers when they tried to bowl 170 kph and be ULTRA AGGRESSIVE ARGGGHHH in the 2003 final. And West Indies in 1996 semi. And arguably Zaheer at the death in 2011. It's all about whether you let the occasion get to you.

 

[akilana]

they're just a **** odi side.

Ya maybe but they were knocked out by Ireland before and now Bangaledesh.

India in 96 semi was a massive choke and they choked in 2003 final. They choked harder in 2007 by losing to Bangaladesh.

 

[marc71178]

You're not quite getting the concept of choking here are you?

 

[Loose Cannon]

You guys seem to be confusing separate things. At least two definitions are needed.

Game choke: succumbing to match pressure as a game nears its conclusion.
Tournament choke: succumbing to the pressure inherent in a tournament, which squeezes in knockouts. This can happen at any point during a knockout game.

Weaker sides who overachieve usually have tournament choke problems from ball one of a knockout. South Africa seems to spectacularly double choke nearing the end of knockout game.

 

[akilana]

You're not quite getting the concept of choking here are you?

Nah you are not getting it.

 

[akilana]

England choked badly in 2 champions trophy final.

 

[GirtBySea]

Just because South Africa may not win the World Cup, does not mean they have "choked". They will be known, for past reasons and they have not broken it, as "chokers". There is a difference between a "choke" and a "choker". Because in this tournament, they are not raging favourites or thrown away matches. They have a glaring weakness, and that is a poor W-L conversion when batting second, way below other teams.

 

[Dick Rockett]

This choking thing is a distraction. Journalists make up narratives to keep people interested and this is one of them.

 

[marc71178]

Nah you are not getting it.

No, I'm getting it perfectly fine.

A poor team losing and being knocked out is not choking.

A much over-hyped team getting spooked as soon as pressure comes upon them is choking.

I know that as a South African for you it is hard to swallow (pun not intended) but SA do choke much much more often than anyone else.

 

[Furball]

Yeah I don't get how anyone can say South Africa in 2007 wasn't a choke.

Australia had a go at their batsmen pre-game for batting slowly (particularly Kallis), Kallis then yorks himself trying to run down the pitch to Glenn ****ing McGrath to hit him onto the next island. IIRC Smith was another one who lost his wicket trying to run down the pitch and stamp his authority on the game (to Bracken IIRC). Pretty sure Ashwell Prince was another one who lost his wicket to a ****ing dreadful shot.

The pressure of both the occasion and what the Australians had said in the media previously completely got to the South African batsmen, resulting in them completely altering how they batted with disastrous results. Textbook choking.

 

[Furball]

in fact this is just a masterclass in how not to bat

edit: lol, what a still image

 

[OverratedSanity]

We intimidate South Africa - Hayden | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Ponting wants slowcoach Kallis in early | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Kallis hears those comments and goes super ultra final form aggressive to try and score 500 against McGrath and co. Beautiful, beautiful mindgames.