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Thread: The Importance of Being a World Cup Winner

  1. #16
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Yeah and they actually lost more games after that one to teams they should have beaten too. The inconsistent form of SA + OZ being so, so bad kept Pakistan in the semi-final race right up until their match against NZ. That they then dudded one of the form teams by heaps was a shocking result. Imran's captaincy kicked-in from that game, for mine.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 02-02-2015 at 07:04 AM.

  2. #17
    The Tiger King smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    To be fair, without the rain in the England group game they were out - don't see how his leadership helps there?
    To have lost a game so badly the team needed a real morale booster. And IIRC Imran wasn't playing in the initial part of the world cup was he? I believe he was injured against WI (and did he play in that England match)?

    Exclusive | One moment in Perth changed our lives: Aaqib Javed - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

    The right mental approach is vital. A coach, manager, captain or even any other senior player can be the pivotal person. For us, it was Imran Khan. It was all him. The ‘92 World Cup belonged to him and his mind-set. It was his brainchild. If it weren’t for him there’s no way we could have even thought about winning, let alone reach the final.
    Inzy has recently written a similar article

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Yeah and they actually lost more games after that one to teams they should have beaten too. The inconsistent form of SA + OZ being so, so bad kept Pakistan in the semi-final race right up until their match against NZ. That they then dudded one of the form teams by heaps was a shocking result. Imran's captaincy kicked-in from that game, for mine.
    Imran's captaincy came into his own from the match against Australia really.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm7zttyW9n4

    The match against SA should have been Pakistan's though had it not been for that rain forsaken rule. They benefitted from it against England but they also lost because of it to South Africa. That Pakistan SA match should have been Pakistan's if only the rain hadn't made a mockery of the target.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  3. #18
    Cricket, Lovely Cricket Pratters's Avatar
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    Very interesting topic bagapath.

    A World Cup adds to the legacy of a player, far more than it should. If a player has a career legacy rating of 100, a world cup win adds, say 5 instead of adding 2 points, say. Tests still play the biggest part in the legacy of a player. Botham won the world cup for his team, we would be considering Botham far greater. However, I doubt that we would consider Botham ahead of Imran still.

  4. #19
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

    If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.

    Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

    If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.
    No one has argued against all this, tbh.

    Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.
    I doubt this. Botham had a lesser career compared to Imran and I doubt the world cup win would make people rate him ahead of Imran.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    I would rate him above Imran. When it comes to ODIs, performances in World Cup matches really, really, really matter.

  7. #22
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    It is not just about ODIs we are talking about here.

  8. #23
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    With Junaid also out for Misbahstan, they are quickly becoming cornered tigers.

    History could be repeating itself. World Cup in Australia, Pakistan massive underdogs, awesome captain everyone should get around.

    Misbah = the new Imran.
    zorax likes this.
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  9. #24
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Can't wait for Misbah to rock up and take 7 wickets with an economy of 4.16 across the tournament as well.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

    If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.

    Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.
    Yeah, Yuvraj will never be forgotten because of his tournament winnings performances (although his last one didn't quite work out haha) despite a relatively average ODI record.
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  11. #26
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

    If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.

    Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.
    So presumably Steve Waugh bats five in your ATG ODI side?

    I think winning a WC certainly adds to your legacy. Certainly a player like Gilchrist, who had pretty average WCs in 1999 and (iirc) 2007 has his reputation enhanced by the fact he made scores of 50 odd or more in three successive WC finals. There's something about stepping up in huge games/ situations which adds to a player's legacy imo

  12. #27
    International Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Sachin's failures in two WC finals do take away a bit of his greatness.

  13. #28
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    Made up by the fact that he scored heavily in WCs on the whole
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  14. #29
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    I honestly don't think I'd have a much different opinion or view on either Botham or Imran had that final gone the other way & I don't think being a WC winner is really that big a deal when assessing players.

    Imran for me, was overall the best of the 4 all-rounders of the 80s..and in terms of bowling all-rounders, probably only the great Keith Miller could stake a claim of being up there with him.

    Botham on the other hand was still for me the greatest 'all-rounder' for a period of time (half his career) we've ever seen, and if he was a more disciplined/stats driven character like say a Richard Hadlee, he could have averaged 40+ with the bat & around 25/26 with the ball.

    I know Imran had a few golden periods too, like his bowling in 1982 & batting late in his career, but he never had the impact Botham did in Beefy's younger days.
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  15. #30
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    Stepping up your game for the WC is something great cricketers do. However, penalising those who fail in the final is kinda unfair. No matter how good you are, sometimes you just need things to go for you on a given day.

    Gilchrist is a true freak though... stepped up and delivered in 3 consecutive finals.
    zorax likes this.

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