The Importance of Being a World Cup Winner

[cnerd123]

I would rate him above Imran. When it comes to ODIs, performances in World Cup matches really, really, really matter.

 

[Pratters]

It is not just about ODIs we are talking about here.

 

[Jono]

With Junaid also out for Misbahstan, they are quickly becoming cornered tigers.

History could be repeating itself. World Cup in Australia, Pakistan massive underdogs, awesome captain everyone should get around.

Misbah = the new Imran.

 

[cnerd123]

Can't wait for Misbah to rock up and take 7 wickets with an economy of 4.16 across the tournament as well.

 

[Contra]

Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.

Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.

Yeah, Yuvraj will never be forgotten because of his tournament winnings performances (although his last one didn't quite work out haha) despite a relatively average ODI record.

 

[Burgey]

Nah **** all the diplomatic BS. World Cups are huge. Massive part of a player's ODI legacy IMO.

If you want to be considered an ODI ATG, perform in World Cups. Even better, win a World Cup. Even better, captain the winning side in the World Cup from an impossible position, and be an incredible source on inspiration and strength to the entire squad and all the fans watching.

Imran Khan WAG. If Botham did all that, he would definitely be more of an ODI ATG than Imran.

So presumably Steve Waugh bats five in your ATG ODI side?

I think winning a WC certainly adds to your legacy. Certainly a player like Gilchrist, who had pretty average WCs in 1999 and (iirc) 2007 has his reputation enhanced by the fact he made scores of 50 odd or more in three successive WC finals. There's something about stepping up in huge games/ situations which adds to a player's legacy imo

 

[bagapath]

Sachin's failures in two WC finals do take away a bit of his greatness.

 

[Daemon]

Made up by the fact that he scored heavily in WCs on the whole

 

[Zinzan]

I honestly don't think I'd have a much different opinion or view on either Botham or Imran had that final gone the other way & I don't think being a WC winner is really that big a deal when assessing players.

Imran for me, was overall the best of the 4 all-rounders of the 80s..and in terms of bowling all-rounders, probably only the great Keith Miller could stake a claim of being up there with him.

Botham on the other hand was still for me the greatest 'all-rounder' for a period of time (half his career) we've ever seen, and if he was a more disciplined/stats driven character like say a Richard Hadlee, he could have averaged 40+ with the bat & around 25/26 with the ball.

I know Imran had a few golden periods too, like his bowling in 1982 & batting late in his career, but he never had the impact Botham did in Beefy's younger days.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Stepping up your game for the WC is something great cricketers do. However, penalising those who fail in the final is kinda unfair. No matter how good you are, sometimes you just need things to go for you on a given day.

Gilchrist is a true freak though... stepped up and delivered in 3 consecutive finals.

 

[Zinzan]

Stepping up your game for the WC is something great cricketers do. However, penalising those who fail in the final is kinda unfair. No matter how good you are, sometimes you just need things to go for you on a given day.

Gilchrist is a true freak though... stepped up and delivered in 3 consecutive finals.

Gilchrist was a special special player, but I think we can all agree it was a tad easier for him to shine in crucial WC games than it was say an Andy Flower if you catch my drift.

 

[OverratedSanity]

On the big day, in the big final, coming in to bat as an opener is a massive challenge no matter which team you play for. 1999 I guess wasn't a pressure situation because Pakistan had already been bowled out for piss. 2003 and 2007, though was sheer Gilchrist genius. I don't know how him being part of the Australian team helps him when he's going out to bat opening in the first innings.

 

[Zinzan]

Mainly that he didn't have to face McGrath, Lee & Gillespie & co

I do actually agree with you in the main, just saying it does help when the side you play for is arguably the best of any era ever. And to be fair on Gilly, he was a big part of the reason they were so good.

 

[Furball]

I would rate him above Imran. When it comes to ODIs, performances in World Cup matches really, really, really matter.

So why is it people under-rate Gilchrist as an opener?

 

[Jono]

Name these people. This is the most incorrect opinion you have Furball. Bloke is called an ATG ODI batsman by almost everyone. Pretty sure Cricinfo facebook page called him an ATG the other day when comparing his record with Amla's.

 

[cnerd123]

Only reason I wouldn't have Gilly in my ODI ATG XI is because I'd want Dhoni in there as keeper/finished instead.

Gilly is a beast.

 

[smash84]

Only reason I wouldn't have Gilly in my ODI ATG XI is because I'd want Dhoni in there as keeper/finished instead.

Gilly is a beast.

yeah, agreed. Dhoni has to be in any AT ODI XI and there is just no point in having gilly around then.

 

[weldone]

in most all time XIs chosen by experts, akram makes it to the final team ahead of mcgrath or ambrose. if his batting ability makes the difference then hadlee should be considered ahead of him. but that doesnt happen ever. i am assuming akram's exploits in the 1992 final gives him an extra inch to sneak in ahead of mcgrath and ambrose who, in my opinion, are even greater than akram purely as seamers. so i am wondering if spectacular success in WC final does add an extra sheen to a great player's legacy.

It has more to do with left arm variety than '92 wc

 

[weldone]

And btw, whether Imran's captaincy style would've worked for '80s WI or '00s India is immaterial in a discussion about his greatness. He didn't play for either of these 2 teams.

 

[Top_Cat]

Name these people. This is the most incorrect opinion you have Furball. Bloke is called an ATG ODI batsman by almost everyone. Pretty sure Cricinfo facebook page called him an ATG the other day when comparing his record with Amla's.

Yeah Furball falling into the CW trap here, one feels. We've all done it (and, in some cases with particularly idiotic people, still do it....)