Gilly, Dhoni or AB?

[honestbharani]

Nah that team was always losing, Ponting special or not.

Edit: I realise that's not your point at all but India were by so far the 2nd best team in that competition its not funny.

Yeah we might have lost either way but I am just stating what happened

 

[Furball]

One surprising thing about Gilly is that his hundred/innings ratio is less than that of Jayasuriya's - even though he had a better average and strike rate overall.. Suggests that Gilly was more likely to get a quickfire 30-50 and get out and not play the high impact innings as often as you would like.

A run a ball 50 is pretty impact when he's being followed by any 5 of Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey or Watson. It's the perfect platform for those guys to utterly smash a bowling attack. Or, if Gilly goes really big, then watch out.

For whatever reason, Gilchrist seems to go massively under the radar when it comes to his ODI batting.

 

[Jono]

For whatever reason, Gilchrist seems to go massively under the radar when it comes to his ODI batting.

Woah woah woah. He makes a lot of all-time XIs with an average in the 30s (including mine). I think he's well and truly on the radar.

 

[dogwalker]

For whatever reason, Gilchrist seems to go massively under the radar when it comes to his ODI batting.

Nope.

 

[harsh.ag]

Honestly, at this point it's more like the only reason you don't have Dhoni ahead of Gilly in the ODI side (assuming only one of them were available) is if you thought Gilly's keeping was that much better than Dhoni's.

 

[viriya]

A run a ball 50 is pretty impact when he's being followed by any 5 of Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey or Watson. It's the perfect platform for those guys to utterly smash a bowling attack. Or, if Gilly goes really big, then watch out.

For whatever reason, Gilchrist seems to go massively under the radar when it comes to his ODI batting.

Depends on whether you consider two 50s in a row better than a 100 and a duck. The 100 will probably be match-winning, while the 50s might not be. In terms of impact, you could argue that the 100 + 0 > 50 + 50.
It might be the case that Gilly didn't feel like he needed to carry on because of his teammates, but that's hardly a positive when rating him.

It's not just Jayasuriya - pretty much every single ATG opener had a higher hundreds/innings rate than Gilly: Sachin, Amla, Sehwag, Anwar, M. Waugh, Hayden, Gayle, Greenidge.. every single one of them.

Gilly while being an undoubted ATG ODI opener, gets overrated slightly because of his memorable WC performances.

 

[Robart Denram]

Dont compare Dhoni with AB if you want to compare a player with AB than Virat kohli is better choice

 

[Tec15]

Name names then. Because nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as Gilchrist at the average Gilchrist scored at, as quickly as Gilchrist scored them.

Not true at all. Sehwag has pretty much the same average as Gilchrist but a substantially higher strike rate (104>95). Actually that formulation is true for AB for however. " nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as AB at the average (52) AB scored at, as quickly as AB scored them (97).

As for the list of openers better than Gilchrist, they include: Anwar, Mark Waugh, Hayden, Gayle, etc, etc. It's a long list. Moot point anyway, as I would open with Amla and Tendulkar and have AB in the middle order.

 

[weldone]

Name names then. Because nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as Gilchrist at the average Gilchrist scored at, as quickly as Gilchrist scored them.

Nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as Dhoni at an average that is higher than (Dhoni's average - 7). Dhoni scored 8211 runs @ 52.63. The next best average among all batsmen who scored more than 8211 is Tendulkar's 44.83 [Although Tendulkar scored 2.44 times as many runs, so let's leave it at that.]

 

[Furball]

Nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as Dhoni at an average that is higher than (Dhoni's average - 7). Dhoni scored 8211 runs @ 52.63. The next best average among all batsmen who scored more than 8211 is Tendulkar's 44.83 [Although Tendulkar scored 2.44 times as many runs, so let's leave it at that.]

Dhoni's strike rate is inferior to Gilchrist's so that doesn't refute what I posted.

 

[Furball]

Honestly, at this point it's more like the only reason you don't have Dhoni ahead of Gilly in the ODI side (assuming only one of them were available) is if you thought Gilly's keeping was that much better than Dhoni's.

Or you just pick them both and have Dhoni as a specialist fielder.

Not picking then both because they're both wicketkeepers is brainless. And Gilchrist allows ypu to stack the batting whilst also giving you one of the best openers of all time.

 

[Tec15]

Or you just pick them both and have Dhoni as a specialist fielder.

Not picking then both because they're both wicketkeepers is brainless. And Gilchrist allows ypu to stack the batting whilst also giving you one of the best openers of all time.

Hardly. Having a batsman with a mid thirties average is far from stacking the batting line up. Simply not good enough for an all time eleven.

 

[harsh.ag]

Or you just pick them both and have Dhoni as a specialist fielder.

Not picking then both because they're both wicketkeepers is brainless. And Gilchrist allows ypu to stack the batting whilst also giving you one of the best openers of all time.

I agree, but the premise of this thread assumes you can't pick both. Having said that, with Dhoni there, it would be fascinating to pair Tendulkar with one of Hayden, Waugh, or Greenidge at the top (already seen him and Jayasuriya together at Mumbai Indians - that was awesome )

 

[harsh.ag]

Actually, a post 2007 ODI XI would have a pretty awesome batting line-up because four guys have been really tearing it up in Dhoni, Amla, AB (nod to Jono), and Kohli. Something like this maybe:

Tendulkar
Amla
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Hussey
Yuvraj/Watson

 

[dogwalker]

Actually, a post 2007 ODI XI would have a pretty awesome batting line-up because four guys have been really tearing it up in Dhoni, Amla, AB (nod to Jono), and Kohli. Something like this maybe:

Tendulkar
Amla
Kohli
AB
Dhoni
Hussey
Yuvraj/Watson

Would any ATG ODI team be able to compete with that batting line up?

 

[Furball]

Hardly. Having a batsman with a mid thirties average is far from stacking the batting line up. Simply not good enough for an all time eleven.

facepalm.jpg

check the strike rate.

 

[Top_Cat]

Serious lack of consideration to team needs being mentioned in this thread. Gilchrist played like a homicidal baseballer because it's what the team needed and wanted. Early days he was far more sedate but he selflessly sacrificed an average that would guarantee him entry into CW.net pundits' top XI's to win games and World Cups for his country. Every hundred of his delivered a win for OZ.

 

[viriya]

Serious lack of consideration to team needs being mentioned in this thread. Gilchrist played like a homicidal baseballer because it's what the team needed and wanted. Early days he was far more sedate but he selflessly sacrificed an average that would guarantee him entry into CW.net pundits' top XI's to win games and World Cups for his country. Every hundred of his delivered a win for OZ.

Can't really say his average suffered for the sake of SR when you consider how Sehwag's SR is way better.. That argument is not really that compelling imo. You don't bat risky just because - you might be more aggressive but it wasn't like his SR was out of this world to merit that.

 

[Furball]

Not true at all. Sehwag has pretty much the same average as Gilchrist but a substantially higher strike rate (104>95). Actually that formulation is true for AB for however. " nobody in the history of the game has scored as many runs as AB at the average (52) AB scored at, as quickly as AB scored them (97).

As for the list of openers better than Gilchrist, they include: Anwar, Mark Waugh, Hayden, Gayle, etc, etc. It's a long list. Moot point anyway, as I would open with Amla and Tendulkar and have AB in the middle order.

On what planet are Hayden or Gayle better than Gilchrist? **** sake.

 

[harsh.ag]

Serious lack of consideration to team needs being mentioned in this thread. Gilchrist played like a homicidal baseballer because it's what the team needed and wanted. Early days he was far more sedate but he selflessly sacrificed an average that would guarantee him entry into CW.net pundits' top XI's to win games and World Cups for his country. Every hundred of his delivered a win for OZ.

He was in the strongest team ffs. Why would he need to make sacrifices with Ponting and Co. to follow, and McGrath and Co. to defend totals? He was just playing his natural game.