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How good is Ryan Harris?
- Thread starter viriya
- Start date
the big bambino
International Captain
Just 26 tests of good form? Srsly
Geez what a lucky bowler eh? 
Just curious though: In what way does his record, which is the product of his hard work, character and skill, flatter him?
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viriya
International Captain
Maintaining 2 years of great form (~26 tests) over a career is what matters.. Philander had an amazing 2 years, and just had an average 2014.. that's why he's not compared to McGrath, who maintained an amazing record over a decade+.Just 26 tests of good form? Srsly
Just curious though: In what way does his record, which is the product of his hard work, character and skill, flatter him?
cnerd123
likes this
Except when you watch Philander bowl, you can tell he is the kind of bowler who will struggle to take wickets when the pitch doesn't offer him anything. Harris, on the other hand, has already proved that he is a threat even on dead tracks. By simply watching the two bowlers in question, you can tell that Harris is significantly better than Philander is. You don't need them bot to play a decade of cricket to understand that.
People were predicting Philander's decline as soon as he debuted. No one has said any such thing about Harris.
People were predicting Philander's decline as soon as he debuted. No one has said any such thing about Harris.
Swingpanzee
International Regular
But in Rhino's case a decade is not possible due to injury. IIRC He hadn't even played consecutive test matches until Old Trafford last year.
Reckon he's always been seriously good since his debut. His control and consistency is amazing.
OverratedSanity
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I actually thought Philander would do fine on the flatter wickets, because I saw him in the UAE and he bowled superbly. Thought he also did ok in SL, even though he didn't really get many wickets.
But if people consider him a Green track bully now, I still wholeheartedly agree. WAFC he is.
But if people consider him a Green track bully now, I still wholeheartedly agree. WAFC he is.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
To play devil's advocate, how many dead tracks has Harris actually bowled on? I thought Philander was pretty decent in the UAE, for example.
cnerd123
likes this
Probably stretching the definition of a dead track a bit here, but:
1st Test: New Zealand v Australia at Wellington, Mar 19-23, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: Sri Lanka v Australia at Pallekele, Sep 8-12, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
4th Test: Australia v India at Adelaide, Jan 24-28, 2012 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: England v Australia at Manchester, Aug 1-5, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
5th Test: England v Australia at The Oval, Aug 21-25, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: Australia v England at Adelaide, Dec 5-9, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Port Elizabeth, Feb 20-23, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
1st Test: Australia v India at Adelaide, Dec 9-13, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Arachnodouche
International Captain
He's a strange combination of brute strength and subtle, technical wristwork. He wouldn't be half the bowler he is today without those two attributes. The action of itself isn't so great until the very last point of release; not exactly side-on, front arm almost stationary. But it all comes together and how. Love to watch him bowl.
viriya
International Captain
I do think Harris is better than Philander atm, but not by a huge margin.. It's not a fair comparison too imo, since Philander is just 29 and yet to learn all the tricks Harris spent time honing in the domestic level.. It's not inconceivable to think Philander will end up being a Harris-type bowler at 35 - his action is simple and it seems that he can land it on a length all day - he can easily play for another 5 years and learn to do well everywhere.
viriya
International Captain
Pallekele is far from a dead track.. it's probably the best Test pitch for pacers in SL.
cnerd123
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I agree. I am just pointing out that suggesting Harris' average will decline after 2 good years because Philander's did is flawed reasoning.
If instead you want to argue that Harris debuting at the peak of his powers has benefited him statistically as compared to many other fast bowlers, then that's more reasonable, although then many will point out that Harris at his peak is at a level many other bowlers won't reach.
MrPrez
International Debutant
Incredibly, incredibly OTT to suggest he will be a top 20 of all time bowler, or a top 3 in Aus history, or anything similar.
It is not a comparable situation to guys like Proctor, Richards etc who were considered top quality players throughout their careers even if they only got a few matches in Test cricket. Harris was completely average for most of his career, and has had a couple of good years as his "reformed" self. He isn't as proven even as someone like Philander who dominated domestic cricket for years before getting a chance for SA. I remember Dale Steyn not being considered an ATG for ages because "we don't know if he can keep up this performance, or if it is just a long purple patch."
No doubt Harris is a great bowler, and should be remembered as such, but people are giving him too much credit in this thread with some of their prospective rankings of him (top 20 of all time, comfortably 3rd ahead of all but Lillee&McGrath).
It is not a comparable situation to guys like Proctor, Richards etc who were considered top quality players throughout their careers even if they only got a few matches in Test cricket. Harris was completely average for most of his career, and has had a couple of good years as his "reformed" self. He isn't as proven even as someone like Philander who dominated domestic cricket for years before getting a chance for SA. I remember Dale Steyn not being considered an ATG for ages because "we don't know if he can keep up this performance, or if it is just a long purple patch."
No doubt Harris is a great bowler, and should be remembered as such, but people are giving him too much credit in this thread with some of their prospective rankings of him (top 20 of all time, comfortably 3rd ahead of all but Lillee&McGrath).
Salamuddin
International Debutant
Harris is a very good bowler but I don't think he's a genuinely great one.
The genuinely great bowlers are dangerous in pretty much all conditions - I'm not sure Harris would be that successful on
typical subcontinental pitches or in the Caribbean.
Having said that tho, there's probably one genuinely great bowler IMO in world cricket atm - Dale Steyn.
Would pick Dale any day over Harris but Ryan's a match for anyone else.
The genuinely great bowlers are dangerous in pretty much all conditions - I'm not sure Harris would be that successful on
typical subcontinental pitches or in the Caribbean.
Having said that tho, there's probably one genuinely great bowler IMO in world cricket atm - Dale Steyn.
Would pick Dale any day over Harris but Ryan's a match for anyone else.
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morgieb
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Didn't he take a lot of wickets in Sri Lanka? Not his fault he never plays in the subcontinent (although one could count his injury problems against him).