Rate your current team against history

[Grasshopper]

Looks like they did. Was well before my time though tbf.

We fell to pieces after that first test win. Went to pot, one might say...

 

[tahir590]

My favorite team is Pakistan.

 

[Burgey]

Australia is a very middle of the road side atm.

 

[wpdavid]

Australia is a very middle of the road side atm.

Depends on whether Harris & Clarke are fit and what mood Johnson is in afaics. If those 3 are fit & firing, they're pretty damn good. The trouble with winning 5-0 is folks can assume the opposition were rubbish, but actually England weren't that bad last year, but just got blown away. And of course the result in SA was outstanding. Since then, Warner's become the best opener in world cricket and Smith's stepped up several gears, so you're not looking too shabby. Perhaps your batting is over-dependant on the guys I mentioned. And I don't know how much more mileage you'll get from Johnson and Harris, but right now you're better than MOR in my opinion. I think you got spoiled by the sides in the 1990's and early 2000's mate.

 

[Daemon]

Disagree that they're a middle of the road side. They're either good or crap. Good everywhere except India and the UAE where they're dire. They aren't hovering in between two extremes, they are both the extremes.

 

[Jono]

India 2015 is a lot better than India 2014 imo.

 

[hendrix]

India 2015 is a lot better than India 2014 imo.

Yeah. Superior VC.

 

[Burgey]

Nah they're a middling outfit. You have to compare them with Australian sides of the past. They aren't late 50s or mid 80s bad, but neither are they early 20s, all the 30s & 40s, the mid 70s, mid-90s or 2000-2008 good. They're in the middle.

Apologies for the long post, but australia has plainly has more great eras than any other nation, so it took a while to type them all out.

 

[Hurricane]

Nah they're a middling outfit. You have to compare them with Australian sides of the past. They aren't late 50s or mid 80s bad, but neither are they early 20s, all the 30s & 40s, the mid 70s, mid-90s or 2000-2008 good. They're in the middle.

Apologies for the long post, but australia has plainly has more great eras than any other nation, so it took a while to type them all out.

Good post
and I appreciate you and morgie chiming in from an Australian perspective. I was struggling where to rank this outfit myself. They seem to have some very good players but also some less consistent performers such as Watson and Marsh etc.

I think the strength of Australian cricket for me over the years has been your opening batsman. I can't ever recall a time where you didn't have good openers. When we play you I never give up hope even if your openers have put on 0-150 because I generally find they are the toughest nuts out of your batting line up (not that the rest are soft) but the tradition of good Aussie openers is one of the things that comes to mind when I think of comparisons against history and trends.

 

[Blocky]

Best results ever, most balanced team - only thing we're really missing is a capable spin bowler but then some would argue we never really had one anyway.

 

[morgieb]

Nah they're a middling outfit. You have to compare them with Australian sides of the past. They aren't late 50s or mid 80s bad, but neither are they early 20s, all the 30s & 40s, the mid 70s, mid-90s or 2000-2008 good. They're in the middle.

Apologies for the long post, but australia has plainly has more great eras than any other nation, so it took a while to type them all out.

Didn't we beat England 4-0 in the late 50's? Think you're confusing that with the mid 50's.

 

[Athlai]

Best results ever, most balanced team - only thing we're really missing is a capable spin bowler but then some would argue we never really had one anyway.

And a second opener.

 

[MrPrez]

Interesting to compare the current SA team to the Mean Machine era. I don't quite know how to go about it.

 

[weldone]

India 2015 is a lot better than India 2014 imo.

India 2015-17 is a lot better than India 2012-14.

 

[Slifer]

Current WI has potential but on current form is one of the worst of all. Probably only better than the pioneering teams of the late 20s and 30s

 

[GotSpin]

With Clarke out...the batting looks pathetic

 

[honestbharani]

Look, you gotta see the results Australia are getting against India at home now with the kinda opposition India are... India are a good batting side but honestly, it has only been 3 guys who have been playing well out of the entire eleven... And our bowling is pretty pathetic for the most part.. Australia have still lost so many sessions to this side.. I do think Australia can be good,esp. their fast bowling but their performance in this series so far has left a lot to be desired when compared to the great standards set for them by the past Aussie sides and it is only because of the fact that the Indian side are that bad that Australia are ahead by so much this series...

 

[GotSpin]

Thats the thing. India can huff and puff about sessions won With only a few players doing well all they want.

But The fact is. India havent taken 20 wickets in a match yet. Further more, The loss of Clarke cannot be underestimated. A batsmen who pillages India in his Home conditions.

Nevertheless, India have played Johnson quite well and ofcourse have dispatched Starc.

 

[weldone]

The Aussie tail-enders are proving the worthlessness of both the Indian bowling and the Aussie top&middle order.

 

[SeamUp]

Interesting to compare the current SA team to the Mean Machine era. I don't quite know how to go about it.

My overall view for what it is worth Brad,

Think SA started to become competitive in the 50's but by the late 50's a lot of those stars were on the fade and for a while we lost it again until Roy McLean lead the youngsters to England like Richards, Pollock, Irvine, Procter. From about that side we started to produce world class teams and would keep compete right at the top of international cricket through isolation and in the years post isolation.

The early years were probably about beating England in South Africa in a couple of series with the wrist spin bowlers like Aubrey Faulkner leading the way. Herbie Taylor came a bit after Faulkner but missed out on a few years together due to WWI. Faulkner only ever saw those 2 test series wins. While Taylor was around for beating England and New Zealand in SA in the early 30's.

Our first test series win off SA shores was v England in 1935 and we started to get a few more players together like Bruce Mitchell , Jock Cameron & spinner Cyril Vincent who were part of the series wins in the early 30's and guys like Dudley Nourse and Eric Rowan made their debuts on this Tour. Obviously with WWII taking up time but it is hard to believe one of the real greats in Dudley Nourse only ever won 1 test series for SA. Common denominator was no real pace attack that was strong enough to beat England and Australia.

In the 50's England and Australia struggled to beat us. There were a few drawn series. This side probably lacked a proper batting line-up but we started to compete because we got a bowling line-up together. Guys like Neil Adcock, Peter Heine & Hugh Tayfield were world class with Goddard chipping in. Jackie McGlew and Goddard were solid with the bat but Johnny Waite was relied upon too much probably still.

Our 60's team starting to come together

Eddie Barlow
Trevor Goddard
Ali Bacher
Graeme Pollock
Colin Bland
Tiger Lance
Denis Lindsay
Peter Pollock
seamer
seamer
spinner

Then the 69/70 4-0 win

Goddard
Barry Richards
Bacher
Pollock
Barlow
Lee Irvine
Lance
Lindsay (wk)
Mike Procter
Pollock
spinner - Chevalier, Traicos, Seymour,

*probably lacked a world class spinner still but a quality team all the same. Geniouses with the bat in Richards and Pollock. Lindsay ahead of his time in attacking batsmanship as a keeper and Procter and Pollock the best new ball attack around. Barlow rounded off the genious of this team with his attacking cricket he played.

Then Clive Rice & Vince van der Bijl were picked for the next tour and isolation hit. As you went into the 70's Goddard definitely was on his way out. Bacher, Barlow,Lance, Lindsay, P.Pollock wouldn't have played for ages.

Would probably say the 69/70 , the isolation side, best team in the 90's , recent successful era side have been our best.

Isolation Side - MEAN MACHINE TRANSVAAL V WESTERN PROVINCE

Barry Richards (Natal)
Jimmy Cook (Mean Machine)
Peter Kirsten (WP)
Graeme Pollock (EP to Mean Machine)
Ken McEwan (EP to WP)
Clive Rice (Mean Machine)
Lee Irvine (Natal to Mean Machine) (wk) and then the less batting talented Ray Jennings (Mean Machine)
Mike Procter (Natal)
Garth Le Roux (WP)
Vince van der Bijl (Natal to Mean Machine)
Alan Kourie (Mean Machine) or Denys Hobson (WP) as the spinner

12th Stephen Jefferies (WP)

This side would have had more depth than the 69/70 side. Looking at it, the gaps in that side of 69/70 were filled and there was a spinner or 2 depending on conditions and gameplan. Barlow is a big miss but then Rice was the best replacement for the position you could ever find and brought a brand to cricket that was greatly missed on the international stage. Procter, le Roux, van der Bijl, Rice hello Wes Indies ! P.Kirsten and McEwan would have loved the sub-continent, 2 of SA's finest players of spin bowling. Cook was a run machine too. Wow



90's side

Gary Kirsten
Herschelle Gibbs
Jacques Kallis
Daryll Cullinan
Hansie Cronje
Jonty Rhodes
Brian McMillan
Mark Boucher
Shaun Pollock
Lance Klusener
Allan Donald

* Fanie de Villiers just before this team
* Makhaya Ntini gets bedded into this set-up
* Paul Adams as the spinner when you wanted to

The batting was probably not the strongest but in Rhodes you had all-rounder with his fielding ability ahead of his time and Cronje a great captain who played big knocks when the chips were down against the best opponents of the era. 4 40+ averages with G.Kirsten, Gibbs, Kallis, Cullinan. All-rounders galore with Kallis, McMillan, Klusener, S.Pollock. Then you had 'White Lightening' too.

Then the recent successful sides

Graeme Smith
Neil McKenzie then Alviro Petersen
Hashim Amla
Jacques Kallis
AB de Villiers
Ashwell Prince then JP Duminy
Mark Boucher then Faf du Plessis
Average spinner chipping in
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
Makhaya Ntini then Vernon Philander

Runs were put on the board with world class batsman in Smith, Kallis, Amla, AB. Prince scored runs when the chips were down and same for Bouch. Quicks hunted in packs with the genious of Steyn.

Our current side is still behind the above but obviously very similar to the one directly above. It has clear potential as carries lots of players from the previous successful team.

Openers being tested. Elgar has the temperament to succeed longer term. They need to decide if they back Stiaan van Zyl to open if Virus gets shafted or go to Reeza Hendricks.
Keeper is sorted for many years to come with Quinton de Kock.
3,4,5,6 of Faf, Hash, AB and the more consistent all-round Duminy looks good. All coming into their peak now.
Spinner situation looks most exciting in a while with Harmer and Piedt and I reckon Linde knocking on the door once he plays more for the Cobras.
Abbott, Rabada, de Lange there to possibly back up the 3 quicks for now.