Are we really going to pretend that Murali Vijay....

[Athlai]

That's true, (although tbf even his 2010-12 form wouldn't see him a long margin ahead of Warner, especially considering the SR Warner scores at), but I assumed the OP was talking about 'current', and averaging 33 in his last 40 innings sees him behind the likes of Warner & Vijay if I was picking a team today.

Look how hurt Howe's feelings are. It's adorable.

 

[Pratters]

It is great to see Vijay's development. I still feel there are lose ends in his technique. His tendency to play shots where he shouldn't is still there. The impressive part is that he has reduced this to a large extent. I do not see Vijay as a great opener who will average 50 over his career tbh, though who knows, he may develop into that. However, given the lack of openers in India, even if we have a player who averages around 45 at the top, it is not bad at all.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

To be fair, England has the second best home attack in the world with a fit Australian attack (somewhat of a myth) pushing them for the spot. In the last five years, Anderson and Broad alone have 278 home wickets @ 24. They're drastically less efficient away but Anderson and Broad in swinging conditions are awesome.

Anderson + Broad isn't an attack. It's half an attack.

 

[Stapel]

I just read that Murali Vijay's ton was the first ever by a tourist opener in the first innings at the Gabba. The list of top ten overseas openers first innings scores really looks dire.

 

[Stapel]

Anderson + Broad isn't an attack. It's half an attack.

Yeah, but Anderson&Broad + any two half decent English bowlers, bowling in England still is the World's #2 home attack.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Anderson + Broad isn't an attack. It's half an attack.

It's the new ball attack. Which counts for well more than half the attack in places like England and South Africa.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah, but Anderson&Broad + any two half decent English bowlers, bowling in England still is the World's #2 home attack.

Well that's been a bit of an issue lately*, but it shows how good they are at home that they're still getting the job done.

*Moeen excepted.

I'm still taking SA at home as #2 at worst because Philander.

 

[Teja.]

Particularly because when you judge openers the new ball attack occupies prominence.

 

[Teja.]

Well that's been a bit of an issue lately*, but it shows how good they are at home that they're still getting the job done.

*Moeen excepted.

I'm still taking SA at home as #2 at worst because Philander.

It's SA>Eng>Aus at home, IMO.

Aus would be second if they can get Johnson, Harris and two performing, non-leaking pacers on the pitch.

 

[Flem274*]

It is great to see Vijay's development. I still feel there are lose ends in his technique. His tendency to play shots where he shouldn't is still there. The impressive part is that he has reduced this to a large extent. I do not see Vijay as a great opener who will average 50 over his career tbh, though who knows, he may develop into that. However, given the lack of openers in India, even if we have a player who averages around 45 at the top, it is not bad at all.

He's not a 50 player and I'll be impressed if he averages 45, but he's a good player and should be 40+ or high 30s if he plays to his potential.

Every team in the world would kill for that right now, even the sides with one established opener.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Cook can no way be called anywhere near the top 3 openers at present, bottom 3 maybe given his run of form over the last 18 months. If he gets it back he will obviously shoot back up the list again but until he does you would be choosing him on past glories not current form.

As for Vijay, no problem if he is regarded as number 2 behind Warner. Not as though there is much competition at present. It is Warner as 1 with daylight in 2nd.

 

[Teja.]

He's not a 50 player and I'll be impressed if he averages 45, but he's a good player and should be 40+ or high 30s if he plays to his potential.

Every team in the world would kill for that right now, even the sides with one established opener.

Yeah, averaging 50 as an opener right now is extremely hard considering the new ball bowlers in test cricket.

Vijay was what a lot of us predicted to be the sort of guy who'd absolutely feast on bad bowling at home and be found out away so it'd be interesting observing him at home for the next couple of years.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Yeah, but Anderson&Broad + any two half decent English bowlers, bowling in England still is the World's #2 home attack.

Disagree with this entirely.

It's the new ball attack. Which counts for well more than half the attack in places like England and South Africa.

And this is oversimplistic. Yes, Anderson and Broad historically have been an ideal new ball pairing, but a number of their successful series they've had plenty of top quality backup as well. Their 2nd string seamers are shoddy at the moment, not even passable so I'm not going to recognise their attack as highly as the majority are willing to do, it seems.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Averaging 50 as an opener has always been ridiculously hard no matter what era. Only a handful have ever achieved it.

 

[Teja.]

Averaging 50 as an opener has always been ridiculously hard no matter what era. Only a handful have ever achieved it.

Even averaging 45+, it's a different dynamic in cricket than what was the situation 10 years ago. Circa 2009-2010, you had a handful averaging that at the same time.

 

[Zinzan]

It is great to see Vijay's development. I still feel there are lose ends in his technique. His tendency to play shots where he shouldn't is still there.

Yup, I do recall Southee exposing Vijay in NZ earlier in the year, and IIRC it was generally 'poor shot selection rather than poor technique.

 

[Pratters]

I agree Zinzan.

If you look at how many Indian openers have made 100s in Australia and England, there wouldn't be that many.

While a lot of people are always quick to dismiss the IPL, I think facing quality fast bowlers regularly at T20 level does help to a large degree. You have Steyn playing and then so many other bowlers who are rapid even if their lines may not be the best. Compare that to the dibbly dobblers bowling in the 120s and 130s and it is a big boon for upcoming Indian players.

 

[sujay]

He's not a 50 player and I'll be impressed if he averages 45, but he's a good player and should be 40+ or high 30s if he plays to his potential.

Every team in the world would kill for that right now, even the sides with one established opener.

After his comeback in the Australia-India series at 2013, he is averaging 46.43 with 4 hundreds and 3 nineties. If he continues his good form throughout this series, I am sure he will be in the WC 15 members squad.

 

[hendrix]

I mean obviously I rate Latham but he's played one series against a recovering-from-the-wilderness attack of Roach and Taylor on relatively flat pitches, and one series in which Mohammed Hafeez was the top scorer I believe.

He's not even in this conversation at the moment.

 

[Gnske]

...isn't the second best opener in the world behind David Warner?

And no "There aren't any other quality openers" nonsense. Runs in ENgland , runs in South Africa, runs in Australia. 3 best attacks in world cricket and the 3 toughest conditions for India traditionally. He's awesome and we should all bow down to his ***iness

I dare ask who exactly was saying he wasn't?