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All time best player of all teams

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
There is probably no disputing who the best all time player for Australia or West Indies is. But there is obviously no such defination of ther teams.

Here's who I think are the best of each team :-

Australia - Bradman
England - Jack Hobbs
India - S. Tendulkar
New Zealand - Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - A.Donald
Sri Lanka - Murali
Windies - Sobers
Zimbabwe - A.Flower

I dont think Bashar from Bangladesh would look good with these players but thats my list.. whats yours?
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Australia - Bradman
England - probably WG Grace, but no-one can really be certain, it could be Barnes, Rhodes (all-rounder of incredible ability)
India - again, difficult to say, Tendulkar probably but not certainly (there are some early players of extraordinary ability)
New Zealand - Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - Kallis (though maybe Smith in 10 years' time)
Sri Lanka - Murali
Windies - Sobers
Zimbabwe - A.Flower
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Richard said:
England - probably WG Grace, but no-one can really be certain, it could be Barnes, Rhodes (all-rounder of incredible ability)
Ofcourse, Keith Fletcher is also in there.:P
 

PY

International Coach
Australia - Don Bradman
England - Ian Botham
India - Kapil Dev
New Zealand - Richard Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - Barry Richards
Sri Lanka - Muttiah Muralitharan
Windies - Vivian Richards
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower (though Heath Streak is fast catching IMO)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
PY said:
England - Ian Botham
Windies - Vivian Richards
:O :O :O
I did wonder if anyone might say Botham for England, but I didn't seriously think it might happen.
Botham was a brilliant player, no disputing, but there are plenty who had higher batting averages and lower bowling averages.
Wilfred Rhodes and WG Grace were two.
And how can anyone possibly consider Richards better than Sobers. IMO Sobers would have been the better player if he couldn't bowl a ball on the square.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
PY said:
Australia - Don Bradman
England - Ian Botham
India - Kapil Dev
New Zealand - Richard Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - Barry Richards
Sri Lanka - Muttiah Muralitharan
Windies - Vivian Richards
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower (though Heath Streak is fast catching IMO)
I notice a lot of all rounders..

Why Richards over Sobers?

And I dont think Kapil would compare to Tendulkar in another 7-8 years though his feats are truly praiseworthy.
 

PY

International Coach
As you so often say, averages don't always tell the full story :P. Maybe Sobers had a poor first-chance average? ;)

Never saw all those players you mention whereas I have had the pleasure of seeing extensive coverage all of mine play except The Don, Barry Richards and Gary Sobers.

Therefore I went for who I thought was the best. On second thoughts, maybe Beefy isn't the best but he's the Englishman who I've seen who is best at turning a game on its head by himself.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
PY said:
As you so often say, averages don't always tell the full story :P. Maybe Sobers had a poor first-chance average? ;)

Never saw all those players you mention whereas I have had the pleasure of seeing extensive coverage all of mine play except The Don, Barry Richards and Gary Sobers.

Therefore I went for who I thought was the best. On second thoughts, maybe Beefy isn't the best but he's the Englishman who I've seen who is best at turning a game on its head by himself.
But surely you can't overlook consistency in favour of the odd occasion of turning a match on it's head (especially in 1981)?
It is possible, of course, but unlikely, that Sobers had a poor first-chance average. The standard of catching in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s, and, for that matter, before that, was much higher than nowadays.
Back-foot no-balls, by common consent, helped lbw decisions, too.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
PY said:
As you so often say, averages don't always tell the full story :P. Maybe Sobers had a poor first-chance average? ;)

Never saw all those players you mention whereas I have had the pleasure of seeing extensive coverage all of mine play except The Don, Barry Richards and Gary Sobers.

Therefore I went for who I thought was the best. On second thoughts, maybe Beefy isn't the best but he's the Englishman who I've seen who is best at turning a game on its head by himself.
Botham is surely the best English player in the last twenty years but its telling about how he has been the rare great player in the side.

Also, I rate Worrell along with Sobers for building his side. Viv was truly a magnificent player but I wouldnt rate him near Sobers.

In the last 20 years or so, Viv has truly been the best Windies batsman/player but I dont think the likes of Garner, Marshall and Lara (who can add to his greatness by around 2007 if he continues) are too far away.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
halsey said:
The key word there being WOULD.
Yes, and it's a would - wasn't, so hence the fact that Sobers could do what he could widens an already existant gap, not closes him in on Richards.
I often think people are biased towards those they have seen.
Some things, however, are really beyond doubt. Sobers was too good to comprehend and therefore it doesn't matter whether you saw him or not. Ditto Bradman.
 

PY

International Coach
Richard said:
I often think people are biased towards those they have seen.
Some things, however, are really beyond doubt. Sobers was too good to comprehend and therefore it doesn't matter whether you saw him or not. Ditto Bradman.
True, true.:duh:

I am biased towards people who I have seen. But would it make you happy if I changed it? It's purely opinion based. You could argue for and against either of them and have a darn strong argument and a fair few others. ie Courtney and Curtly for example.
 

krkode

State Captain
Pratyush said:
There is probably no desputing who the best all time player for Australia or West Indies is. But there is obviously no such defination of ther teams.

Here's who I think are the best of each team :-

Australia - Bradman
England - Jack Hobbs
India - S. Tendulkar
New Zealand - Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - A.Donald
Sri Lanka - Murali
Windies - Sobers
Zimbabwe - A.Flower

I dont think Bashar from Bangladesh would look good with these players but thats my list.. whats yours?
I agree 100% with that list except for England, I'd have Botham. :P
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Richard said:
had higher batting averages and lower bowling averages.
Wilfred Rhodes and WG Grace were two.
In cricket?

I fear you are mistaken.

IT Botham 5200 runs @ 33.54.

WG Grace 1098 runs @ 32.29.

W Rhodes 2325 runs @ 30.19.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
Fazal Mahmood is IMO the greatest Pakistani player. He helped establish Pakistan as a world cricket power in the 50's bowling them to wins over England (away), Australia (home) and India (away).

He (and Khan Mohamad) inspired a whole generation of Pakistanis to get into fast bowling.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Aus - Bradman
Ban - Bashar
Eng - Hobbs
Ind - Dravid
NZ - Hadlee
Pak - ??
SL - PA De Silva
SA - Kallis
WI - Sobers
Zim - Streak
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
The standard of catching in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s, and, for that matter, before that, was much higher than nowadays.
Or is it the case that the reporting of dropped catches is now far more prevalent than the incidences of dropped catches?

I find it very hard to believe someone with little to no memory of cricket pre 90 can come out with something like this.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
:O :O :O
I did wonder if anyone might say Botham for England, but I didn't seriously think it might happen.
Botham was a brilliant player, no disputing, but there are plenty who had higher batting averages and lower bowling averages.
Wilfred Rhodes and WG Grace were two.
Indeed WG Grace did have a better bowling average - but then again his 9 wickets in 22 games is hardly comparable to Botham's 383 in 102 matches.

Regarding batting I grudgingly accept that you can now defy mathematics and declare that 32.29 is indeed higher than 33.54.

Likewise, Wilfred Rhodes, with his batting of 30.19 is bigger than Botham and his 33.54. Again Rhodes took his wickets cheaper at 26.96, but he only took 127 in 58 matches.
 

hourn

U19 Cricketer
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
In cricket?

I fear you are mistaken.

IT Botham 5200 runs @ 33.54.

WG Grace 1098 runs @ 32.29.

W Rhodes 2325 runs @ 30.19.

you just can't compare those three based on pure averages.

An average of 30+ in those days, is akin to an average 50+ in these days.

Judging players before WWI is just downright impossible.

To the topic;

Australia - Bradman (who else??)
England - Herb Sutcliffe
India - Sachin Tendulkar
New Zealand - Richard Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
South Africa - Graeme Pollock (probably the most open nation - theres about 10 guys that could claim the title)
Sri Lanka - Muttiah Murilitharan
West Indies - Gary Sobers
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower
 

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