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Thread: Will "mystery" off-spinners be eradicated from the sport?

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    International Debutant WindieWeathers's Avatar
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    Will "mystery" off-spinners be eradicated from the sport?

    In light of the recent crackdown on actions and the situations surrounding Narine, Ajmal and Senanayake one wonders if the days of magical offys are set to be a thing of the past? bar Swann has there really been many conventional off-spinners who have captivated the audience and had the ability to light up the game?

    That's why in a way the Narine test results could be a watershed moment for the art..if he is indeed deemed to be a "chucker" then the days of the true "mystery spinners" could well be over.

    Even now when i look at the young prospects coming up in Caribbean cricket i find myself looking more at leggies now..it just seems like the life of an off-spinner is such a tight rope to walk. If you're "plain Jane" then how far can you go at international level unless you have a God-like ability to flight the ball like Swann did? and even he was mostly effective against lefties.

    Ramiz Raja said in a recent interview that there needs to be room in the game from "mystery" spinners like Narine and Ajmal otherwise the game is too easy for batsmen...does anyone agree? lets say for example that Narine and Ajmal bowled at 18 degrees..would that really be a terrible mark on the game considering the entertainment value they bring to the sport?
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    We've drawn the line at 15 degrees, and with good reason. So unless some scientific research tells us to raise the bar higher, I think cracking down on bowlers exceeding this limit is fair.

    You don't need a doosra to be a 'mystery' finger spinner either. The carrom ball works. Mendis, Ashwin, Herath have all had success with it.

    Orthodox, hard spun, accurate finger spin works too, ala Swann, Herath, Lyon, and to a lesser extent Rehman, Shakib, Ojha, Benn and Moeen.

    You're just looking for a bowler who can bowl accurate hard spun offbreaks, with the carrom ball and a few other variations for 'mystery'. Herath already fits this bill, and Ashwin has the potential to as well. South Africa has Dane Piedt who looks promising too.
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    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Personally think we need more mystery fast bowlers tbh. A little 85mph-20-degrees something something
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    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
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    Good orthodox spinners are still being produced, Nathan Lyon comes to mind. The ability to dominate and 'light up the game' is a rarity with any spinner, most leggies lack the control to do it consistently and most orthodox spinners lack the guile, revs or accuracy or a combination of those factors. Spinners like Senanayake and Narine should be able to operate in much the same manner as currently with legal actions, but guys bowling the doosra will find life harder unless the rule changes.

    Narine's test results shouldn't be a 'watershed moment', if he fails both he and Senanayake should still be back bowling legally by mid 2015 if they are prepared to clean up their actions, neither of them really need to bend their elbows to bowl the deliveries that have
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    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Decent spinners are getting out decent batsmen in spinning conditions in the same way that decent pace bowlers are getting out decent batsmen in seaming conditions. Top class spinners and top class pace bowlers are taking wickets in all conditions. That's the way it's always been and I'm not seeing any difference in the modern game, despite the amount of calls about super bats.

    We've just seen Moeen Ali, Suliemann Benn and Mark Craig have considerable success across two different series on opposite sides of the world. Similarly, Nathan Lyon has enjoyed a considerably prosperous period. None of these guys are the next Warne or Murali and yet they can still have success at the top level of the sport. What disadvantage?

    The real class spin bowler operating today (Herath) is able to take wickets in all conditions in the same way that Steyn, Harris and Johnson are. He has no queries over his action. Clearly there is no barrier to success for conventional spinners.
    Last edited by hendrix; 06-10-2014 at 02:56 AM.

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    Yes and good riddance, starting with Pews.
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    International Debutant WindieWeathers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Decent spinners are getting out decent batsmen in spinning conditions in the same way that decent pace bowlers are getting out decent batsmen in seaming conditions. Top class spinners and top class pace bowlers are taking wickets in all conditions. That's the way it's always been and I'm not seeing any difference in the modern game, despite the amount of calls about super bats.

    We've just seen Moeen Ali, Suliemann Benn and Mark Craig have considerable success across two different series on opposite sides of the world. Similarly, Nathan Lyon has enjoyed a considerably prosperous period. None of these guys are the next Warne or Murali and yet they can still have success at the top level of the sport. What disadvantage?

    The real class spin bowler operating today (Herath) is able to take wickets in all conditions in the same way that Steyn, Harris and Johnson are. He has no queries over his action. Clearly there is no barrier to success for conventional spinners.
    Those performances were hardly against Sa or Australia though were they? and we all know the problems India have had away from home so we have to wait and see what Ali does in test series to come before we can call him decent. Conventional right-arm off-spinners are doing ok..but right now i'd struggle to say any are world class.

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    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindieWeathers View Post
    Those performances were hardly against Sa or Australia though were they? and we all know the problems India have had away from home so we have to wait and see what Ali does in test series to come before we can call him decent. Conventional right-arm off-spinners are doing ok..but right now i'd struggle to say any are world class.
    That's exactly my point. None are world class at the moment because world class offspinners don't come around every day. World class pace bowlers don't come around every day either.

    But what we're seeing as that Test class offspinners are able to put in credible performances in helpful conditions. As soon as a world class offspinner comes along we'll see him perform well.

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    Well Swann literally just retired, give it a few years and someone wil pop up.

    I expect Piedt and Lyon to be world class.

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    I don't know about mystery spinners but if you mean THROWERS then yes they will be and good riddance I say!!!
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    I think a possible harm it brings is that kids may be viewing it as a shortcut to success and as a result giving up on conventional methods too early.

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    International Regular Kippax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Orthodox, hard spun, accurate finger spin works too
    Not everywhere. I'm pretty sure NZC will work overtime to suppress your aspirations with this.

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    TBH we've definitely been spoiled over the past 20 years with Warne and Murali both running around at once. Chuck in the support from world-class guys like Kumble, early Harbhajan, MacGill, Saqlain and (much later on) Swann, and you've got a seriously strong era for spinners.

    And of them, only really Murali can lay claim to being 'mystery' in nature.

    I don't think we'll see offspin eradicated from the sport, nor do I think 'mystery' spinners will disappear entirely. I think we'll just come to realise that not every era is going to have a Warne and a Murali running around taking wickets for fun, and adjust our expectations accordingly.
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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    All spinners are back in the game nowadays. The way LBW's are given more since UDRS showed many were decisions that weren't given are out, means that you get more LBWs ansd batsmen have to play more bring caught at the wicket into play.

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    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Came in here to mention jeets, but kippax just had to beat me too it, kippax WAG, Jeetan Patel WAFG
    Last edited by ohnoitsyou; 06-10-2014 at 05:27 AM.

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