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England prepare to scrap Zimbabwe tour
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
Basically - it's morally fine for them to come here and fill our pockets - but not to tour there.
Oh, Please.
You either go all the way or don't do anything. This is pathetic.
Oh, Please.
You either go all the way or don't do anything. This is pathetic.
Pratters
Cricket, Lovely Cricket
ICC to England - play or face legal action!
Now I got real ****ed the way they handled Zimbabwe in the world cup at the last moment and now they are repeating the same thing again. Instead of making stupid statements, why cant all this be resolved over a table atleast 4 months before a series without creating drama?
Oh I forgot the ICC doesnt have the stuff to handle man!
Now I got real ****ed the way they handled Zimbabwe in the world cup at the last moment and now they are repeating the same thing again. Instead of making stupid statements, why cant all this be resolved over a table atleast 4 months before a series without creating drama?
Oh I forgot the ICC doesnt have the stuff to handle man!
Langeveldt
Soutie
UNBELIEVABLE... I cant believe they think their idealistic stance will make one iota of a difference....
Providing you are not a white landowner, Zim is as safe place to be as many cricketing nations.. This is NOT a security issue...
The Zim players and supporters have my utmost sympathy, they dont need or deserve any of this...
Providing you are not a white landowner, Zim is as safe place to be as many cricketing nations.. This is NOT a security issue...
The Zim players and supporters have my utmost sympathy, they dont need or deserve any of this...
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Not so, if you are a journalist, or of a high profile, you can expect something to happen to you, although not from Mugabe. What the England players are scared of are the many "pro-Mugabe" groups of "War Veterans" who not only attack white landowners but anyone who matters as well. Mugabe wouldn't attack anyone, it's too risky. Much better to get your supporters to and then blame them.Langeveldt said:
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
How come all the other tours passed off safely?
Langeveldt
Soutie
PY said:
Hahahahaha I wish that were the case... I doubt Blair gives two hoots, its a shame.
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
Perhaps the ICC should strip Zimbabwe of it's test status.
Mugabe is a huge cricket fan, even if it doesn't change his ways at least it will annoy him! The players would lose out but then they are already.
It's tragic - a few years ago they had the nucleus of a really good team: The Flowers, Murray Goodwin, Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Streak, Paul Strang. Now, most of those players have been forced away by this lunatic.
Mugabe is a huge cricket fan, even if it doesn't change his ways at least it will annoy him! The players would lose out but then they are already.
It's tragic - a few years ago they had the nucleus of a really good team: The Flowers, Murray Goodwin, Neil Johnson, Alistair Campbell, Streak, Paul Strang. Now, most of those players have been forced away by this lunatic.
Craig
World Traveller
If New Zealand can tour Zimbabwe in 2000 (when this all hapened) then it is safe for England IMO.
And considering Helen Clarke's stance against Zimbabwe, nothing happened to them.
If you are worried about safety, then dont tour South Africa. Just ask Andrew Hall, he will tell you how dangerous it is.
And considering Helen Clarke's stance against Zimbabwe, nothing happened to them.
If you are worried about safety, then dont tour South Africa. Just ask Andrew Hall, he will tell you how dangerous it is.
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
Helen Clark's attitude is a political one - and a correct one IMO. However the government has no right to tell a sport's governing body whether or not they should tour, so there was nothing she could do.Craig said:
I think that the main reason NZ Cricket went ahead with it is because the buffoons in London threatened complete financial ruin if they refused.
Salamuddin
International Debutant
If u strip Zimbabwe of its test status, aren't the real losers the young men and women who play in Zimbabwean cricket ?Hard Harry said:
What does that do to hurt Mugabe and his cronies ?
Dick Rockett
International Vice-Captain
I pointed all that out. Cricket is a big deal to Mugabe - stripping Zimbabwe's test status won't topple him but it could help, along with other sanctions. It's a moral thing, rather than a practical solution.jamesryfler said:
As for the players, yes it's a shame they would miss out, but what do they gain when they are forced to field a permanent 'B' side? Like I said, Zimbabwe were becoming quite a useful side, now all that has been undone because of Mugabe.
When South Africa persued racist ideologies, they were excluded, not just from cricket, but all sports. IMO the same should be done in this case. Mugabe's policies are no less reprehensible just because those he oppresses are white.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
If you ask me the only solution is a unilateral, uni-sport boycott. There is certainly no point one team from one sport deciding not to tour - it's quite ludicrous.
If anyone wants to have any effect (and I'm not saying it certainly will, but there is some evidence that the GlenEagles Agreement played a part in the removal of apartheid, so it's worth a try - I don't think things can really get much worse for the Zimbabweans) then this is the only thing that is worth considering.
England trying something by themselves simply won't have any effect and it really is time The ECB came out and said that - "we think all you idiots who claim it's immoral to tour Zimbabwe are wrong". Tim Lamb has come close to saying the right thing occasionally, but never quite managed the whole hog.
However, I do think Rik has a point that English are in danger that others have not been in. I don't think there would have been any problems in WC2003 but on an independent tour there may be. Mugabe has a certain vendetta against the English, there's no doubt about that.
If anyone wants to have any effect (and I'm not saying it certainly will, but there is some evidence that the GlenEagles Agreement played a part in the removal of apartheid, so it's worth a try - I don't think things can really get much worse for the Zimbabweans) then this is the only thing that is worth considering.
England trying something by themselves simply won't have any effect and it really is time The ECB came out and said that - "we think all you idiots who claim it's immoral to tour Zimbabwe are wrong". Tim Lamb has come close to saying the right thing occasionally, but never quite managed the whole hog.
However, I do think Rik has a point that English are in danger that others have not been in. I don't think there would have been any problems in WC2003 but on an independent tour there may be. Mugabe has a certain vendetta against the English, there's no doubt about that.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
POST NUMBER 6000 - TO TOUR OR NOT TO TOUR?
http://www.cricketweb.net/articles/EpZVpyAyEpKaMSkMEn.shtml
Dateline Harare, February 2003 - England pull out of the 2003 ICC Cricket World Cup Group game against Zimbabwe, delivering a killer blow to their hopes of qualifying for the second phase. The reason? Safety Concerns.
Dateline London, May 2003 - England give Zimbabwe assurances that they will tour in October 2004 to ensure Zimbabwe's participation in the 2003 English summer series. Zimbabwe tour to protests and are summarily defeated.
Dateline London, January 2004 - England are on the brink of withdrawing from their scheduled tour of Zimbabwe (yes, the same one mentioned earlier) due to "moral concerns". Where's the consistency, I ask?
Fact - the Zimbabwean dictatorship of Mugabe is chock-full of human rights abuses, electoral vote-rigging and all manner of unpleasantries.
Fact - selection to the Zimbabwean national team has racial bias. The recent selections and treatment of players like Blessing Mahwire, Jordan Nicolle and Alester Maregwede are proof of this.
Fact - it was perfectly morally acceptable for Zimbabwe to tour England in May.
Fact - no International side has been the victim of any kind of threat to their safety in Zimbabwe in recent years.
So... when the situation decrees that the ECB benefits financially, moral concerns go out of the proverbial window. It is clear that the façade of safety concern has been shattered, yet now the ECB retreat behind a paper-thin veil of on-off morality.
There is no excuse for the ECB's stance in this situation - it smacks of cowardice and desire for money and kudos from New Labour (as ever reluctant to lean off the fence).
You either conduct relations with Zimbabwe or you do not. Trade is still completely permitted. Picking and choosing to suit the barometer of popularity is unacceptable. There can be no half measures in this kind of situation.
With regards to players not wishing to go - I'm sure that you can find 15 who are willing. If you're reading this, Graveney/Fletcher/Lamb, my e-mail address is at the bottom, I can bowl leg-breaks and googlies - and I'll play for free.
Whilst Zimbabwe - in my opinion - have no rights to a seat at the International table whilst the tyrant remains in power, the fact remains that they do, and whilst they do it is not for the ECB to twist the situation in order to extract money out of it.
http://www.cricketweb.net/articles/EpZVpyAyEpKaMSkMEn.shtml
Dateline Harare, February 2003 - England pull out of the 2003 ICC Cricket World Cup Group game against Zimbabwe, delivering a killer blow to their hopes of qualifying for the second phase. The reason? Safety Concerns.
Dateline London, May 2003 - England give Zimbabwe assurances that they will tour in October 2004 to ensure Zimbabwe's participation in the 2003 English summer series. Zimbabwe tour to protests and are summarily defeated.
Dateline London, January 2004 - England are on the brink of withdrawing from their scheduled tour of Zimbabwe (yes, the same one mentioned earlier) due to "moral concerns". Where's the consistency, I ask?
Fact - the Zimbabwean dictatorship of Mugabe is chock-full of human rights abuses, electoral vote-rigging and all manner of unpleasantries.
Fact - selection to the Zimbabwean national team has racial bias. The recent selections and treatment of players like Blessing Mahwire, Jordan Nicolle and Alester Maregwede are proof of this.
Fact - it was perfectly morally acceptable for Zimbabwe to tour England in May.
Fact - no International side has been the victim of any kind of threat to their safety in Zimbabwe in recent years.
So... when the situation decrees that the ECB benefits financially, moral concerns go out of the proverbial window. It is clear that the façade of safety concern has been shattered, yet now the ECB retreat behind a paper-thin veil of on-off morality.
There is no excuse for the ECB's stance in this situation - it smacks of cowardice and desire for money and kudos from New Labour (as ever reluctant to lean off the fence).
You either conduct relations with Zimbabwe or you do not. Trade is still completely permitted. Picking and choosing to suit the barometer of popularity is unacceptable. There can be no half measures in this kind of situation.
With regards to players not wishing to go - I'm sure that you can find 15 who are willing. If you're reading this, Graveney/Fletcher/Lamb, my e-mail address is at the bottom, I can bowl leg-breaks and googlies - and I'll play for free.
Whilst Zimbabwe - in my opinion - have no rights to a seat at the International table whilst the tyrant remains in power, the fact remains that they do, and whilst they do it is not for the ECB to twist the situation in order to extract money out of it.
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