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Start of a new set of questions

OverratedSanity

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It's a pretty rubbish film if you expect it to teach you anything. Denies the existence of good Windies players/teams before the one it wanted to talk about.
Yeah that really annoyed me. Basically dismissed anyone before the Viv-Holding-Roberts era as show ponies who were all style and no substance and were only good for entertainment and not as actual competitors.

That bugger Colin Croft actually says in the film with regards to that famous series down under in the 60s that the West indies teamggot standing ovations from the crowd for "losing". It's not like they competed intensely in arguably the greatest series ever played. Wonder how Sobers, Hall and the others felt about the movie.
 

Ike

Cricket Web Staff Member
Wow... so much to respond to. Spent a half hour just watching the videos. Have to start with Warne. I've heard of him, of course, and heard him in the commentators' box even, but I didn't know the specifics. Plus I assumed he was a seamer. Foolish or not, I picture great Aussie (or English) bowlers as seamers, and the great spinners seem to be predominantly subcontinent. (As with everything else, please correct my misconceptions.) So when I saw the Gattling ball, I was all the more shocked. Maybe it wasn't properly a leave, since Gattling weakly waved at it, but it's the most amazing delivery I've ever seen. The leave by Strauss was an amazing spinner too (and fascinating that those two famous deliveries were Warne's first and 100th wickets in England!), but what makes the Gattling delivery so unbelievable to me was the swing before the spin. The angle the ball made, before and after pitching, has to be the largest (measured obtusely) or the smalled (measured acutely) ever, no? Btw, I've sent a copy of the 4 minute video to my two sons who have gotten into cricket with me, along with the wiki article on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_of_the_Century).

As for 70 seconds of talk, that was great. Hell, the actual full speed clips I can hardly keep up with. I can't typically figure out what happened unless they do a slow motion, or I replay the clip 4-5 times. The discussion gives an idea of what's coming, as well as context. Much easier to appreciate than the Test highlight reel, which I was constantly rewinding 2-3 times per clip I wanted to see. We old folks don't have fast eyes, alas. Anyway, kudos to harsh for appreciating that.

Where to go next? Well, briefly, I still don't know what the "lol Jonny Bairstow" reference means. :) And one more comment on fielder positions: during the 3rd WI-Bang ODI (I think; but may have been an English county playoff match or one of the women's match) I heard a commentator mention another position I hadn't heard before, and which also is not on the cricinfo diagram: short mid-wicket. Easily understandable, but I'd never heard it before. Is it uncommon to hear that term?

Also, I've figured out Howe_zat is English. :)

As for Steven Smith, is TPC a forum thing only? I did a lot of googling and couldn't find the phrase anywhere in relation to him. And 17 pages for a picture thread? Wow. But I can see why Aussies would like him. His "boyish" good looks, and sort of goofy expression (no disrespect intended by that). In fact, he reminds me quite a bit of "Nuke" LaLoosh in the baseball movie Bull Durham, and that's a complement too. Don't know if many cricketers know of the movie, since it's entirely centered on American baseball. (It did get one Oscar nomination, for best original screenplay.) I don't particularly recommend it here, since you really need to have some feel for baseball to understand many parts of it, and if you do know baseball, you probably already know the movie, lol.

As for backward leg fielding restrictions, yes, I'm familiar with them and the original of the rule from the Bodyline controversy in 32-33. In fact, there's a great anecdote about the rule in the little book I've read, The Wit of Cricket (Johnston). Don't know what the rules are for quoting, but I'll quote a bit. If it has to be deleted, it's on page 9 of the paperback edition (Hodder & Stoughton Ltd, 2010. Well, just read the copyright paragraph at the front, better not copy it here. But if you don't know it, check out page 9. It's an anecdote by Dickie Bird.

As for long stop and the fielding restriction, I'd think it would depend if the fielder was on the leg or off side. If directly behind and so on both sides, I would guess he'd be counted as one of the two permissible, no?

As for Fire in Babylon, thanks for mentioning it! In fact, it lead me to start another thread about cricket movies. Of course, that may require nothing more than a redirect to some other thread that's already covered that, but either way I'll try to find the movies that are recommended and watch them. As for Fire in Babylon, any film that belittles players like Sobers is seriously flawed, but I know I'll like it--I've found it on YouTube, but haven't had time to watch it yet. I'll enjoy it for what it shows of the great Windies players of the 70s and 80s. By the way, which series is "arguably the greatest series ever played" (Windies vs England? in the 60s)? Perhaps I can find video of that one too, although from back then, it would probably be of poor quality alas.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info! You guys are great!
 

OverratedSanity

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Pleasure reading your posts.

Yeah, the drift is what made the Gatting delivery so amazing. And it really had to be perfect to get a wicket without kind of ball. It had to drift in the air exactly the right amount into Gatting to get the ball in the blind spot beneath his foot, it had to spin long enough for it to miss his bat and pad and it also had to not spin too much to miss the stumps. There's a great quote about the ball from Martin Johnson : "How anyone can spin the ball the width of Gatting boggles the mind" :laugh:

And if you're wondering about the fast bowlers equivalent of the Ball of the Century, it's probably Wasim to Dravid at Chennai in 1999.


It's not just the swing but how he sets Dravid up with the previous two deliveries.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I still don't know what the "lol Jonny Bairstow" reference means. :)

As for Steven Smith, is TPC a forum thing only? I did a lot of googling and couldn't find the phrase anywhere in relation to him. And 17 pages for a picture thread? Wow. But I can see why Aussies would like him.
Jonny Bairstow just isn't very good -- he finds some incredible ways to look utterly useless at Test level (that weird catch he hit to short mid on being one, getting bowled by straight balls at random etc.). I mean, he should, for all intents and purposes, actually be quite decent given his First Class career. But he just isn't.

TPC is definitely a forum-only thing (though we have some very weak evidence that another New South Wales player may have somehow come across it and joined the bandwagon).
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah that Akram set up is just astounding.

another easy to find amazing ball is the Steyn outswinger to Michael Clarke. It's all over youtube. Batsman did nothing wrong whatsoever. Just unplayable.
 

Ike

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thanks for all the further comments and info. I spend a lot of time thanking, but you guys spend a lot of time sharing great information!

OS, I appreciated the video of the seamer 'ball of the century', although I couldn't appreciate it nearly as well as Warne's. I think the movement differences of pace bowlers is much more subtle than for spinners, and I've just not achieved the 'fine sight' to realize exactly what's happening nearly as well. But that's why I keep watching cricket and asking questions!

Also thanks for clarifying the match you referred to. I've ordered Calypso Summer, and I believe that will tell me a lot about the series.

Thanks to Hendrix for mentioning Steyn to Michael Clarke. I found it here: Unplayable delivery by Dale Steyn to Clarke at WACA, 1/12/2012 | Cricket Clips . That one was a bit easier to appreciate (for me) than Wasim's.
 

OverratedSanity

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@Ike

Look up Steyn to Pujara. I guarantee that's easier to appreciate than the one to Clarke. Starts outside off, looks as though it's going down leg, swings back crazy and hits in front of middle.

Can't find a good enough video of it, but here's Steyn to Harbhajan in the same spell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CnGABJrI8c

Dat outswing :wub:
 
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