Is the criticism of the Indian batting line up justified?

[Furball]

The series wasn't decided in 2011. The Ashes may have been retained but actually winning a series in Australia was huge. The players would have been gutted to come back with 2-2.

I see your point regarding shorter series but I love 5 Test series because of how demanding they are. To front up for 5 Tests takes a lot mentally. They really seperate men from boys.

 

[Spark]

That may well be the case but let's be real here: it was completely obvious beforehand what the result of that Test was going to be.

 

[GIMH]

That may well be the case but let's be real here: it was completely obvious beforehand what the result of that Test was going to be.

A dig back through the CW archives would probably suggest otherwise tbh

 

[Furball]

That may well be the case but let's be real here: it was completely obvious beforehand what the result of that Test was going to be.

In the same way it was obvious what the Perth result would be after day 1?

 

[GIMH]

All the ingredients were there for an Oz win in Sydney. Captaincy debut, England players hungover, pressure off. And 09 and it's incredible seesaw swings was fresh in the memory

we were favourites (rightly) but there were plenty of good reasons why it wasn't a foregone conclusion

 

[Jono]

That may well be the case but let's be real here: it was completely obvious beforehand what the result of that Test was going to be.

Nah no way that's an overstatement.

 

[Goughy]

It's like the (probably apocryphal) story of the mid-20th century Chinese communist leader who, when asked his thoughts on the impact of the French Revolution, replied that it was too soon to tell. It all depends on your perspective. I get your basic point, but some might counter by pointing out that we've become accustomed to hearing Pujara and Kohli being hailed as worthy successors to Dravid and Tendulkar, and it being taken for granted that they were guaranteed long-term fixtures in the India team, for quite a while.

On the strength of what we've seen this tour the first contention is laughable, and even the second is highly doubtful. Both have been exposed as having serious technical flaws which might potentially cut short their Test careers altogether. I would say that Kohli, who is probably rated higher because he more obviously possesses the ability to take opposition attacks apart, is the greater concern. He not only has chronic problems against seam and swing in these conditions but also often looks clueless against spin.

So I think you're deceiving yourself if you reckon it's a question of duke vs kookaburra. I can't think of a great batsman of the recent past to the present - from Lara/Tendulkar to Clarke/Amla - who has looked so utterly clueless in a series once their place has been established. The last named, for instance, struggled mightily and looked barely Test class first time out. But once he got his second chance having been dropped and properly established his place in the side he never looked back. The problem for Kohli and Pujara is that they were already established in the side before this series. The suspicion must now be that they're simply not that good.

The criticism is justified. They were terrible on so many levels. I wouldnt worry too much about it though. It was embarrassing but there could be reasons - An away series where games are on top of each other compounds the problems, everything is overwhelming and conditions and bowling are suited to exploit common weaknesses.

Move on and play the next series, then the next one after that, and not dwell on this shambles. Hope you dont get tested in the same way, hope to have more time from the exhausting burden of failure in back to back to back Tests and - this is the key - learn how to manage your technique rather than changing it. It is OK to have technical issues as long as you can recognise them and work within the limitations of your technique. Technical excellence is overrated. Knowing your game and adapting it to the conditions isnt.

In short - The criticism is justified as it has been otherworldly awful but that doesnt mean the battling line up should be blown up and rebuilt. Perhaps this was just a perfect **** storm that has now passed. They should put this series behind them and move on.

 

[91Jmay]

The Aussie win in the 3rd test of that series came out of nowhere, so Sydney was by no means a foregone conclusion.

 

[YorksLanka]

Yes completely justified.. Any cricket fan wants their team to stand up and be counted irrespective of the result not surrender. As I have said before, if I were an Indian fan,I would be livid at the gutless performance of the team.

 

[harsh.ag]

I wish they just get on with things, and not let this go inside their heads much. A few good performances, and maybe, just maybe, they will be able to handle Johnson-Harris-Pattinson down under. Betting Lyon to take less wickets than Ali for sure though

 

[SJS]

"Don't be so jealous of IPL". Dhoni's words speak volumes. IPL money has totally corrupted the game in India. Its very existence means it is likely that we have seen in Dravid and Tendulkar the last Indian batting greats. When you combine the continuing fall-off in batting standards with India's traditionally iffy and non-penetrative bowling, I can see the country sliding to de facto minnow status alongside Bangladesh and Zimbabwe within a decade. The nouveaux riches would-be nabobs of IPL and BCCI will respond to this new humiliation with Dhoni-like nonchalance: "you're only criticizing our performances in the longer format [i.e. the game itself] because you're jealous of the billions we rake in from its exciting and innovative [i.e. meaningless and evanescent] spinoff".

Well said

 

[Burgey]

I wish they just get on with things, and not let this go inside their heads much. A few good performances, and maybe, just maybe, they will be able to handle Johnson-Harris-Pattinson down under. Betting Lyon to take less wickets than Ali for sure though

Mate, the way India is batting at the moment, Lyon mightn't get a bowl.

 

[Jono]

Mate, the way India is batting at the moment, Lyon mightn't get a bowl.

Sad but true

 

[Jono]

"Don't be so jealous of IPL". Dhoni's words speak volumes. IPL money has totally corrupted the game in India. Its very existence means it is likely that we have seen in Dravid and Tendulkar the last Indian batting greats. When you combine the continuing fall-off in batting standards with India's traditionally iffy and non-penetrative bowling, I can see the country sliding to de facto minnow status alongside Bangladesh and Zimbabwe within a decade. The nouveaux riches would-be nabobs of IPL and BCCI will respond to this new humiliation with Dhoni-like nonchalance: "you're only criticizing our performances in the longer format [i.e. the game itself] because you're jealous of the billions we rake in from its exciting and innovative [i.e. meaningless and evanescent] spinoff".

I remember the glory days of Indian cricket pre-IPL. The amount of overseas test series we won. The gun openers we had. The brilliant fast bowlers we produced. Those were the days.


Oh wait we were ****.

Pinning the patheticness of the last 3 tests on the IPL is the weakest thing I've ever seen. IPL doesn't help test cricket, but it isn't the reason why the whole team simultaneously stopped giving a ****.

 

[hendrix]

Blaming the IPL is a little silly. It's what, 8 weeks of cricket and a huge revenue boost for the board. Yes money isn't everything but it's not like theyve canceled the Ranji trophy and it's not like we're seeing a disinterest in Test cricket that wasn't already there amongst the Indian middle class.

Something about the Duke and English conditions exposed the batting lineup far worse than SA and NZ did. Anderson and Broad aren't really better than Southee and Boult yet they were far more effective and killed the contest far quicker.

Australia didn't win a game in England, did they?

 

[Jono]

It actually lets off the players by blaming IPL.

 

[91Jmay]

Going to call bull**** on Anderson not being better than Boult, but other than that I agree.

 

[hendrix]

Going to call bull**** on Anderson not being better than Boult, but other than that I agree.

just meant as a bowling combo. Southee + Boult is probably on par with Anderson + Broad. Slightly better or worse depending on your perspective, but in the same ball park.

 

[Teja.]

Anderson and Broad are outstanding at home over the last half a decade. They both average in the early twenties at home and early/mid thirties away in the period over 250-300 home and 450+ overall wickets so facing Anderson/Broad at home is the more challenging test between combinations of home/away and the bowling attacks.

Southee/Boult is just a straight up better bowling partnership overall though and certainly travel better. IMO, the other three are in the same class but Southee over the last couple of years is in a different league.

 

[Daemon]

Anderson in the last couple of tests was quite comprehensively better than Southee and Boult when we toured NZ imo, but of course we have to take the entire series and the absolute ****ness of the Indian batting into account.

It's not really a fair comparison anyways because of the length of the series and the conditions present, but Anderson and even Broad at times were absolutely top class.