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Inswinger as a stock ball?

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Hmmm, not sure I agree but its an interesting point. I think if Steyn could swing the ball both ways like Anderson he would tbh. He's just in general a better bowler. Don't think he's a better bowler because he concentrates on his outswinger more than Jimmy.
I agree.

I'd agree with wellAlbidarned if Jimmy was a jack-of-all-trades and his outswinger suffered because he also bowled the inswinger. But I don't think that's the case - and there's certainly no evidence that it is.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I remember how Jimmy got Sachin 2nd dig Lord's 2011 (was there :(). Outswinger dropped at slip, next ball inswinger LBW. Gun.

Edit: Sorry it was 2 balls later.
 
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OverratedSanity

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I remember how Jimmy got Sachin 2nd dig Lord's 2011 (was there :(). Outswinger dropped at slip, next ball inswinger LBW. Gun.
Jimmy got Tendulkar several times with the lbw. He was never able to pick it properly. Steyn tried to do it to Sachin at Capetown but because he didnt have a real inswinger, his straighter deliveries were generally flicked away

#inb4AllThreadsTurnIntoTendulkarThreads
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
The Numbers Game: Dale Steyn v James Anderson | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

According to this, he averages 27 against lefties since the start of 2010.
From January 1 2010 to April 6 2012.

I don't know whether it comes down to semantics whether we call it a weakness or a non-strength. But I do believe, from watching him bowl, that he occasionally struggles to bring the ball back into the left hander when bowling over the stumps with the change in angle that forces. He also occasionally struggles with his line.

I don't know whether bowling an in swinger (out swinger to the lefties) would improve his game against left handers or simply getting better at consistently getting shape in and letting natural variation and angle do the rest of the work would make the most improvement.

Southee's bowling to Gayle would be an excellent example of use of the latter option. But I do think that having Boult be largely responsible for the left handed batsmen (at least anecdotally - I haven't checked the stats) with his natural away swing certainly helps the team cause. I do know that Sanga for example averages significantly less against left arm pace bowlers and I think at least part of that is because of the natural movement away. And while Phil Hughes isn't in the same class as Sanga, I don't think "Hughes c Guptill b Martin" would've occurred 4 times in succession were the bowler Tim Southee, even though Southee is a much better bowler than the Phantom.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Yeah was looking through Rob's stuff with him this morning, very similar style to Bond. Great to watch (obviously came before him though)
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Of course, virtually all outswing bowlers would bowl the same way to left handers - meaning that the outswinger becomes an inswinger.

Now, without wishing to appear too much of a fanboy, Jimmy Anderson's skill as a swing bowler is such that he bowls outswingers as his stock ball to both right- and left-handers. That's really something - I can't remember ever seeing anyone else do it. Couple that with his ability to reverse the ball both ways and he's pretty much unique. I don't pretend he's the complete article but hats off to him all the same.
The Numbers Game: Dale Steyn v James Anderson | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

According to this, he averages 27 against lefties since the start of 2010. I really do not call that a weakness, it's just not his strength.

I'm sure Steyn would love to swing it both ways if he could hypothetically do it with no adverse affect on rhythm or accuracy. I'm arguing that in the vast majority of cases, bowlers sacrifice quite a bit at the top level by using both deliveries due to the change of action affecting rhythm. Freaks like Wasim and Marshall aside, almost no top level bowlers seem to bother.
Yeah, Wasim was the one who came to my mind who could do both almost equally well.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Wasn't that just his angle though? I'll go back and watch some videos later, but I thought he tried to take the ball away to counter the massive angle he had.
 

Blocky

Banned
If you can bowl the inswinger and stand one up on the seam like Bond and Steyn can, you're lethal. If you do it at 145kmh plus then you're world class. In the case of Bond and Steyn, they also had the accuracy to go with it, unlike some of the other quicks mentioned here.
 

Blocky

Banned
Steyn bowls outswingers tho...unless you mean to lefties? In which case he isn't world class...
I've got vivid recollection of him cleaning up Bell with a beautiful in-swinger and doing it to quite a few other batsmen.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
I've got vivid recollection of him cleaning up Bell with a beautiful in-swinger and doing it to quite a few other batsmen.
I know the ball to Bell you're referring to but it was a cross seamer that decked in slightly not an inswinger. Easier to disguise than a real inswinger so batsmen tend to play well outside it making it look like it moved more than it actually did.
 

DriveClub

International Regular
Is there any actual evidence to support this argument?
Its true, slightly different action, different wrist position, if you find it hard to control you change the angle(wide of the crease, closer to the stumps etc.) Wasim explains it beautifully usually.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
I'm aware that there are differences in technique. What I'm wondering is whether there is any evidence that someone like Jimmy Anderson necessarily "sacrifices quite a bit" through "loss of rhythm" by mixing both types of delivery. Some bowlers might, but it's by no means a given, particularly for those with high skill levels. If you take high class bowlers who moved it both ways - say, Hadlee, Wasim, Marshall or Murali - there is really no evidence of any "loss of rhythm".
 
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