The bowler of the 90s and 00s

[viriya]

Jesus, Kumble was not even close to the bowler Warne was; numbers be damned. Kumble was a legend of Indian cricket only, not even close to ATG.

He seemed to be way better whenever they played together in India though. Not. even. close.

 

[Furball]

Kumble's definitely at least a tier below the very best but at the same time he's underappreciated because he was a direct contemporary of Warne and Murali.

He was an exceptionally good spinner who had he been born 10 years earlier or 10 years later would have clearly been the best in the world at is art. As it is, despite throwing up some frankly phenomenal numbers throughout his career, he's always going to be remembered as a distant 3rd best of his era. And he kinda deserves more than that.

 

[Jassy]

He seemed to be way better whenever they played together in India though. Not. even. close.

What kind of logic is this? this is like saying Stu McG seemed better than Murali every time they played together in Australia. Agree with Furball that Kumble was a good bowler but he was so far away from Warne that it is not even funny. A bit like comparing Ponting and Sehwag or something like that.

 

[viriya]

I'm not claiming that Kumble is as good as Warne. But he is not "not even close to ATG" imo. Like Furball above, he is underrated because he played at the same time the best evers played.

Also, Sehwag is not so much worse than Ponting. Highest SR ever in Test cricket, only batsman other than the Don to hit 225+ runs a day more than 2 times, 2 triples, etc etc. Sehwag is not "not even close to ATG" either. He changed the way test cricket looked at openers. Exhibit A: Warner.

 

[GotSpin]

He seemed to be way better whenever they played together in India though. Not. even. close.

Well, discussion over guys. Kumble bowled better in his home conditions.

Kumble was a very good bowler but not in ATG discussion tbh.

 

[viriya]

Well, discussion over guys. Kumble bowled better in his home conditions.

Not just better, way better:

Kumble got 62 wkts in 10 tests at 24.5 vs Aus (the best team of all-time imo):
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Warne got 34 wickets in 9 tests at 43 vs Ind:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just because he didn't do as well away from home doesn't mean he could never hold a candle to Warne. His away record is the only thing that is a clear blot in his career.
IMO comfortably in the top 10 spinners all-time and probably in the top 5 (#5 after Grimmett and O'Reilly in my view).

 

[cnerd123]

Not just better, way better:

Kumble got 62 wkts in 10 tests at 24.5 vs Aus (the best team of all-time imo):
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Warne got 34 wickets in 9 tests at 43 vs Ind:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just because he didn't do as well away from home doesn't mean he could never hold a candle to Warne. His away record is the only thing that is a clear blot in his career.
IMO comfortably in the top 10 spinners all-time and probably in the top 5 (#5 after Grimmett and O'Reilly in my view).

That is a pretty big blot tbh. No cricketer in the ATG bracket should get there despite being mediocre overseas; and an average of 35 is very mediocre.

Could still sneak into the Top 10 spinners of all time I suppose.

 

[Migara]

Kumble's definitely at least a tier below the very best but at the same time he's underappreciated because he was a direct contemporary of Warne and Murali.

He was an exceptionally good spinner who had he been born 10 years earlier or 10 years later would have clearly been the best in the world at is art. As it is, despite throwing up some frankly phenomenal numbers throughout his career, he's always going to be remembered as a distant 3rd best of his era. And he kinda deserves more than that.

If he was born in the era of uncovered wickets half of the batmen would have **** in their pants when facing fim. Can't think of a deadlier bowle ona sticky.

 

[viriya]

That is a pretty big blot tbh. No cricketer in the ATG bracket should get there despite being mediocre overseas; and an average of 35 is very mediocre.

While I agree that is a good argument to not consider him an ATG, an average of 35 for a spinner is not very mediocre, considering he still averaged 4 wkts/test away. It's like a fast bowler that averages 3 wkts/test and 30. Qadir and Mushtaq Ahmed averaged 33 overall in their whole career and I wouldn't consider them very mediocre spinners.

 

[cnerd123]

Not just better, way better:

Kumble got 62 wkts in 10 tests at 24.5 vs Aus (the best team of all-time imo):
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Warne got 34 wickets in 9 tests at 43 vs Ind:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Just because he didn't do as well away from home doesn't mean he could never hold a candle to Warne. His away record is the only thing that is a clear blot in his career.
IMO comfortably in the top 10 spinners all-time and probably in the top 5 (#5 after Grimmett and O'Reilly in my view).

That is a pretty big blot tbh. No cricketer in the ATG bracket should get there despite being mediocre overseas; and an average of 35 is very mediocre.

Could still sneak into the Top 10 spinners of all time I suppose.

 

[bagapath]

hadlee picked up 431 wickets. lillee got 355. both were world record holders for many years. their bowling performances make up a huge part of modern cricket folklore. those cartwheeling stumps, theatrical appeals, five-fers, session changing deliveries, last minute surprises, big wickets that won games.... there are scores of such moments. together their tallies add up to 786 wickets. a huge, huge number.

murali alone got 800 wickets. that is, 14 more than the holy number of the hadlee-lillee combo.

he has to be the bowler of the era - any era.

ambrose retired in 2000. akram in 2002. they missed an entire decade. so i am conveniently using this as an excuse and leaving them out.

the second place must go to either warne or mcgrath.

using the same argument i used for murali to show my respect for shane warne's 708 wickets, and recognizing the fact that while mcgrath is among a handful of great pacers in the history of the game, warne could very well be the top most tweaker of all time, i go with him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Great spinners will always have more wickets than pacers, though. It's unfair to the quicks.

 

[simonlee48]

Great spinners will always have more wickets than pacers, though. It's unfair to the quicks.

Same way, it's unfair when spinners are compared with pacers for average. They bowl more than pacers so more wickets but higher average.

 

[ankitj]

Yesterday I conducted a group discussion for our employees and chose this as the topic. There were 3-4 guys who vehemently supported Kumble. Surprised but was interesting. Here, he has 0 votes.

That's weird. No, being Indian also doesn't explain that. They just don't follow cricket much and only know about Indian players. Only that can explain it. No half serious Indian cricket fan thinks Kumble is even in top 5 bowlers of his era.

Well, you are in India.

See above.

 

[bagapath]

Great spinners will always have more wickets than pacers, though. It's unfair to the quicks.

Nope. Look a the top 100 wicket takers. Pacers will outnumber spinners. Most world record holders have also been pace bowlers.

800 is a huuuuge number.

 

[Riggins]

Nope. Look a the top 100 wicket takers. Pacers will outnumber spinners. Most world record holders have also been pace bowlers.

800 is a huuuuge number.

Yes but also there are normally 3:1 pace:spin in the team. I would assume the list should be similar to that. Is it?

Regardless; Yes, 800 is stupid.

 

[watson]

Should really pick a quick and a spinner to be fair to both crafts.....

Ambrose is a sentimental favourite because of his on field charisma, but I can't realistically go past McGrath's awesome record. So McGrath is my favoured quick.

Would like to select Murali, but I can't ignore that the fact that he chucked and then was lucky enough to have the rules bent in 2004 to accomodate his action. So this spoils everything.

McGrath and Warne it is - the greatest duo of speed and spin to bowl on the same cricket pitch.

 

[Furball]

That is a pretty big blot tbh. No cricketer in the ATG bracket should get there despite being mediocre overseas; and an average of 35 is very mediocre.

Could still sneak into the Top 10 spinners of all time I suppose.

Extremely harsh words when Kumble was one of the few foreign spinners to work out how to bowl in Australia.

 

[Teja.]

Would like to select Murali, but I can't ignore that the fact that he chucked and then was lucky enough to have the rules bent in 2004 to accomodate his action. So this spoils everything.

I don't care if you think he chucked but this is just not factual.

 

[Adders]

Would like to select Murali, but I can't ignore that the fact that he chucked and then was lucky enough to have the rules bent in 2004 to accomodate his action. So this spoils everything.

Much like you have this decent thread by beating that (very) tired old drum.............there's plenty of other places you can drone on with your ill informed beliefs, they don't belong in here.