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is paul harris the worst bowler to take 100+ wickets?

D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
***** said:
As for ODIs, I can see the argument for Vettori, but watching them both I just felt Bhajji kinda had ODIs figured out. Bowled lots of good tight spells in pressure situations on dead pitches and small outfields. Usually had little to no support as well. Even towards the end when he was just firing it in and couldn't pick up wickets, he kept a good economy rate. I've watched a lot more of India than NZ though, so I guess that creates a bias.
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Vettori did exactly the same thing, but tended to chip in with a couple more wickets, remain a little bit tighter, and didn't have the benefit of a batting line-up featuring Sachin, Kohli and Dhoni at various times to bail him out :p

Personal preference though I guess -- I'm an NZ fan named Daniel who wear glasses and has been nicknamed after Vettori in the past, while also having a pathological hatred towards Harbhajan. I'm not exactly free of bias in this comparison.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I'd take Vettori for one dayers, but Harbhajan for tests every time.

Vettori, as much as I like/respect him, doesn't do it for me as a frontline test spinner.
 
J

Jassy

Banned
ohnoitsyou said:
Harby on turning pitches, Vettori everywhere else. Its that simple
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I think they're both more or less equal on flat decks..the difference is Harby really turned it on(pun intended) on turning pitches and especially on days 4 and 5 whereas Vettori time and again struggled to do this. Of course you could reasonably argue conditions were a factor but I don't think I've ever seen Vettori ever run through a side anywhere, even when the conditions helped him.

On topic - Ishant Sharma if this is about tests. Easily! He'll soon be the worst bowler with 200 wickets too.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Post back injury Vettori relied on batsmen to attack him, so good batting sides who put the team above their egos let him bowl his overs for no more than two an over and attacked the rest of the often Bond-less and Cairns-less New Zealand team.

Vettori's figures improved markedly when he bowled with good seamers. He's the sort of bowler whose threat increases with quality at the other end, because teams couldn't just sit on him.

As soon as you look to attack Vettori you're playing a dangerous game because of his skill with flight and speed through the air, but if you just want to not get out you can play the line because he will never turn one.

Pre-back injury Vettori was pretty effective when conditions suited.

If you have average pacers then you picked Harby and hoped it was his day, but if you had a good fast bowling unit you picked Vettori because he would troll out two or three batsmen an innings and average 40+ with the bat down at number eight.
 
HeathDavisSpeed

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jassy said:
I think they're both more or less equal on flat decks..the difference is Harby really turned it on(pun intended) on turning pitches and especially on days 4 and 5 whereas Vettori time and again struggled to do this. Of course you could reasonably argue conditions were a factor but I don't think I've ever seen Vettori ever run through a side anywhere, even when the conditions helped him.

On topic - Ishant Sharma if this is about tests. Easily! He'll soon be the worst bowler with 200 wickets too.
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Vettori often did the biz with wiz in the first innings, but very rarely helped to clean up in the 4th innings when he should have been contributing more. A much more useful bowler when the batsman was trying to attack him as his variations of flight and release were much more likely to take wickets.
 
J

Jassy

Banned
Nothing against Dan, love the guy but I think that sample size is too small to attribute it to a direct causation. Correlation does not mean causation etc. It's like Stu McG's average in matches involving Warne.
 
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D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
Post back injury Vettori relied on batsmen to attack him, so good batting sides who put the team above their egos let him bowl his overs for no more than two an over and attacked the rest of the often Bond-less and Cairns-less New Zealand team.

Vettori's figures improved markedly when he bowled with good seamers. He's the sort of bowler whose threat increases with quality at the other end, because teams couldn't just sit on him.

As soon as you look to attack Vettori you're playing a dangerous game because of his skill with flight and speed through the air, but if you just want to not get out you can play the line because he will never turn one.

Pre-back injury Vettori was pretty effective when conditions suited.

If you have average pacers then you picked Harby and hoped it was his day, but if you had a good fast bowling unit you picked Vettori because he would troll out two or three batsmen an innings and average 40+ with the bat down at number eight.
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Yeah, this post entirely.

Phlegm WAFG.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Dan said:
I don't particularly rate Harbhajan as a strike bowler (especially outside the subcontinent), so given a straight choice between the two, I'd take Vettori for his control and economy over a guy who I see as neither here nor there on either control or wicket taking.

It would be somewhat dependent upon the fast bowling stocks I had available; if I had quality, incisive pacers it would be Vettori every day of the week. If the quality of the quicks was lacking, then Harbhajan's greater ability to take wickets would become more valuable.

I would, however, take Graeme Swann or a more attacking off spinner with a similar record to Harbhajan ahead of Vettori most of the time. I just flat out don't rate post-2001 Harbhajan that highly.
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I dunno, Vettori couldn't even get Harbhajan out to win his country a test in 2010. :ph34r:
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
I dunno, Vettori couldn't even get Harbhajan out to win his country a test in 2010. :ph34r:
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Harbhajan can't even get selected ahead of Ravindra Jadeja, of all people.

Such a troll, is Jadeja. Undermining Harbhajan's legacy with every test for which he is picked :ph34r:
 
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