New Zealand 'A' Tour of U.K., 2014

[Kippax]

Hopefully Hesson does his usual research, and he doesn't overlook Henry purely on the basis the next assignment is in the UAE though. With NZ groundsmen taking their practices abroad, there's some pretty good pace and bounce to be found there now -
Man of the match, Kagiso Rabada, Australia v South Africa, ICC U19 CWC 2014 - Highlights - Videos

The U19 equivalent of Henry, Matthew Fisher, not finding it too much of a graveyard at all -
Matthew Fisher, Man of the Match, England v New Zealand, ICC U19 World Cup 2014

 

[Hurricane]

I can remember a game in Nelson where he couldn't find any pace or lift at all. Carl Cachopa was able to treat him a bit like a bowling machine, his clean action seemed to allow Chops to see it very early and take to him on the up.

Yet with an average of 23 most NZ pitches must be to his liking. I wonder if we can filter how he does at Eden Park #2 let me take a look.

 

[Hurricane]

Plunket Shield Colin Maiden Park 2010/2011
Henry 41 3
Henry 38 0

plunket Shield Eden Park Outer oval 2013/2014
Henry 41 3
Henry 52 0

In both of those 2nd innings Astle took wickets.

 

[Kippax]

Towards the end of Mark Perham's curating in 2013, Eden Park No. 2 had visibly the quickest and bounciest PS pitches in the country IMO.

Dunedin is probably the one I'd look at for a reliably tedious, low-bounce graveyard for Matt Henry, and yet we all know Wagner manages to do very respectably there.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, Southee/Boult/Henry would be a very one-dimensional attack IMO, even if Henry is better than Wagner in isolation. Three guys reliant upon swing, and no real workhorse quick in there, plus the support from Neesham.

With KW banned and Neesham in the side, a spinner is probably required after all, so 4 specialists is out.

No way in for Henry just yet, unfortunately. Absolutely has to play ODIs though. I'd genuinely go close to backing him for best bowler in the World Cup.

 

[NZTailender]

Remember when Ross Taylor bowled off-spin?

 

[Hurricane]

Remember when Ross Taylor bowled off-spin?

At least that looks like a part timer with spin.
Have you seen his medium pace? Pure filth.
i would slog him out of the attack and I am in 3rd grade.

 

[Bahnz]

No way in for Henry just yet, unfortunately. Absolutely has to play ODIs though. I'd genuinely go close to backing him for best bowler in the World Cup.

Yeah, Henry definitely deserves a decent run in the ODI's v SA in October.

 

[Kippax]

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah, Southee/Boult/Henry would be a very one-dimensional attack IMO, even if Henry is better than Wagner in isolation. Three guys reliant upon swing, and no real workhorse quick in there, plus the support from Neesham.

With KW banned and Neesham in the side, a spinner is probably required after all, so 4 specialists is out.

No way in for Henry just yet, unfortunately. Absolutely has to play ODIs though. I'd genuinely go close to backing him for best bowler in the World Cup.

I think Henry is a bit more Southee like in that he's a swing bowler who knows how to "never bowl a bad ball" and use his bounce, pace and line when conditions don't favour all out attack so I'd think he'd be fine as a third quick, but yeah I agree a bowler like Wagner who is both test standard and very different from our opening duo (or a Bennett/Small/Milne/Mitch if you want to look at the reserves/potential test bowlers) is more ideal. Wagner's ability to whang it in, use the crease, or get reverse swing with pitched up bowling makes up for his shaky economy rate provided he is taking wickets.

If Wagner loses it or Henry shows he's clearly the better bowler though then I'd bring him in.

 

[Dan]

I think Henry is a bit more Southee like in that he's a swing bowler who knows how to "never bowl a bad ball" and use his bounce, pace and line when conditions don't favour all out attack so I'd think he'd be fine as a third quick, but yeah I agree a bowler like Wagner who is both test standard and very different from our opening duo (or a Bennett/Small/Milne/Mitch if you want to look at the reserves/potential test bowlers) is more ideal. Wagner's ability to whang it in, use the crease, or get reverse swing with pitched up bowling makes up for his shaky economy rate provided he is taking wickets.

If Wagner loses it or Henry shows he's clearly the better bowler though then I'd bring him in.

Yeah, I agree completely. I still think Southee/Boult/Henry would succeed -- I just think Wagner adds more to the side with the way he's bowling at the moment right now. The second he's not adding more than Henry would (insofar as that can be measured), you swap the two.

 

[Howsie]

I think Henry is going to be the better bowler and possibly already is. At this stage though Wagner is very deserving of his place and dropping him now would send a "tee hee, we're going to chop and change and pick whoever we like" message to hopefuls outside the test team. Dropping performing players unless there are exceptional circumstances is just silly.

So if Ryan Harris became New Zealand eligible overnight you're not going to pick him because Neil Wagner doesn't deserve to be dropped? (That's an example btw, I'm not for a minute saying Henry's that good right now).

I don't want to do what Australia have just done and bring in the glossy glamorous and overpriced young bowler in for a very good but unfashionable bowler. It's going to hurt Australia and I'd rather we didn't copy. If you want a batting example, then while I think Compton is already being remembered with rose tinted glasses, dropping him for the Root/Carberry/Robson train worked well..

You're not one for upgrading are you Phelgm? Have you actually seen Pattinson's record? You'd think you were talking about Coulter-Nile or something. Siddle's good, Pattinson could be great.

Yeah, Southee/Boult/Henry would be a very one-dimensional attack IMO, even if Henry is better than Wagner in isolation. Three guys reliant upon swing, and no real workhorse quick in there, plus the support from Neesham.

Errr, Southee isn't reliant on swing. He's proven countless times over the past 18 months he's good enough to take wickets without swing, old ball etc. He's a better exponent of reverse swing than Wagner too, not that many people seem to have realised. As it is your've got Out-Swing with Southee, In-Swing with Boult and seam with Henry. He might swing it around but he's still got the ability to nibble it of the seam.

 

[Dan]

So if Ryan Harris became New Zealand eligible overnight you're not going to pick him because Neil Wagner doesn't deserve to be dropped? (That's an example btw, I'm not for a minute saying Henry's that good right now).

I don't think that's what Phlegm is saying at all; the second Neil Wagner adds less to the attack than the next alternative at the present moment, he gets dropped. Even if Henry is fractionally better than Wagner at the present time, the variety added by Wagner makes him a better option right here, right now.

You're not one for upgrading are you Phelgm? Have you actually seen Pattinson's record? You'd think you were talking about Coulter-Nile or something. Siddle's good, Pattinson could be great.

As an Australian I feel relatively well placed to comment on this
Harris has a dodgy knee and Pattinson breaks half the time anyway, while Johnson is ageing and can't be expected to shoulder a huge workload if we want to keep him effective as a 150+km/h beast. Siddle runs in and bowls. And bowls. And bowls. He doesn't break, and sure, while he has a far lower ceiling than Pattinson, Siddle complements the Johnson/Harris attack far better right now. If Ryno wasn't bowling on one leg for the remainder of his career, then yeah, you'd take Patto over Siddle every day of the week.

Johnson is the icing, Harris the not-quite-so-stable middle layer of spongecake. Do you want Pattinson, piling more icing on top with that ***eh 145km/h outswing and relying on Harris to not collapse the base, or do you go want Siddle, who will do a job at providing a solid platform from which Harris and Johnson can be ****ing guns without having to worry that you could be down a pace bowler at almost any time?

 

[Hurricane]

I think if someone is breaking down the door then you find a way to get them into your team no matter what. Only question really is has he done enough yet.

 

[Flem274*]

Plus Pattinson isn't as good as he looks right now. He's helped massively by series against us on greenies and India when they were abject.

He's done some good stuff and has the potential to be an all time great but Siddle is much better right now, more reliable and is a perfect third seamer.

 

[straw man]

Not sure it was a genuinely dead track, that one four-dayer he played in Dambulla.

I can remember a game in Nelson where he couldn't find any pace or lift at all. Carl Cachopa was able to treat him a bit like a bowling machine, his clean action seemed to allow Chops to see it very early and take to him on the up.

Hugely looking forward to this young Jason Gillespie making his test debut.

Tbh not sure why anyone would consider our attack of he, McGrath and Wasim as 'too samey' though.

 

[straw man]

ably backed up by Neil 'the left handed Malcolm Marshall' Wagner when necessary ofc

 

[Kippax]

Macewell brought in for some white ball.

 

[Kippax]

Thought Bradburn might have Moneyball bowling plans for Leask, Cribbage.

 

[Prince EWS]

Opening up