Fleming to open in SA tests?

[Kent]

Interesting comment from 'mentor' Martin Crowe. "You might even see him open in test cricket soon, such is the way he is doing it in one-day cricket. He has a good mixture of strokes".

This would just risk more off-balance LB's and early snicks wouldn't it? Perhaps if they're keen to ease Papps, McIntosh or Fulton in at #3. Perhaps Marshall is in the running for #3 in both forms of the game.

 

[Mingster]

Interesting comment from 'mentor' Martin Crowe. "You might even see him open in test cricket soon, such is the way he is doing it in one-day cricket. He has a good mixture of strokes".

This would just risk more off-balance LB's and early snicks wouldn't it? Perhaps if they're keen to ease Papps, McIntosh or Fulton in at #3. Perhaps Marshall is in the running for #3 in both forms of the game.

Well, Fleming was basically opening in Pakistan Tests anyway because of Vincent's failures.

But Fleming is more effective as 4, where the platform is laid, and he just adds to it.

If you are going to blood the likes of Papps or How, you have to play them in their naturalposition, which is opener, other wise we can another Vincent....

 

[Kent]

I think as you say Fleming is best suited to a foundation being already set, but I'd say the same about most test openers these days! As long as there's no reason to feel spooked by the pitch he could be OK.

Richardson and Vincent/a debutante will guarantee SA feels 'on top' with the ball, especially if their exceptional top 3 have just racked up 600-odd. I'd congratulate Flem is he did try to break their attack's spirit himself.

We all know SA are a pretty reactive side, so who knows, maybe it's the sort of thing we need. That, and manufactured dust bowls perhaps. (After our recent encounters with Murali, Kumble, etc. , SA's spin options should be a picnic. Vettori probably can't lead us to 20 wickets, but still.)

 

[Mingster]

Vettori could lead us to 20 wickets. He looked to have gotten more turn and bite in the 5th ODI and he's nearing his best form.

The spinning department is one area where we will have an edge over the Proteas.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The spinning department is one area where we will have an edge over the Proteas.

Clearly you underestimate the masterclass of Rudolph and Smith.

 

[anzac]

Re: Re: Fleming to open in SA tests?

Well, Fleming was basically opening in Pakistan Tests anyway because of Vincent's failures.

But Fleming is more effective as 4, where the platform is laid, and he just adds to it.

If you are going to blood the likes of Papps or How, you have to play them in their naturalposition, which is opener, other wise we can another Vincent....

I think the theory is that your best batsmen bat at No3 & 4 depending on your team selection re style & strategy for your top 4..........eg Ponting & Martyn; Dravid & Tendulkar; Butcher & Hossain; Kirsten & Kallis; Chanderpaul & Lara...........

While it may be an interesting excercise following on from his ODI form, I'm not too keen on it as a long term ideal unless he becomes more mobile with his feet.........

further more I have concerns that several players in the middle order are not showing the temperament required to build a substantial innings - Fleming & Richardson do but there is little else to follow..........

I'd agree that Opener is probably the only position in the Top order where you would debut a batsman in his 'natural' position as it is so specialised (presuming that the newbie is a specialist in that role)........the rest can afford to be dropped lower in the order to allow them to make the adjustment to the higher level, but an specialist opener has to play in the top 3 otherwise they have to change their game approach too much & take on a different role...........

IMO Vincent's problem is that he is not a true opener at international level in either form of the game and that he was playing ABOVE his position in the batting order - to me he's better suited lower down. However playing in the Top order in domestic cricket & scoring runs as he has should mean that he has the temperament to build an innings so long as he is not exposed too early & likewise with Sinclair - a familiar story although Sinclair's problems have a lot to do with his lack of footwork..........

I don't think How would be in the running this season even for the England Squad........

 

[anzac]

Clearly you underestimate the masterclass of Rudolph and Smith.

nope - he's just saying that Vettori is a better class of spinner than either Adams or Boje & therefore NZ has an advantage in that area..........

how effective that advantage will be then depends on the class of the opposition batsmen, which is where your statement comes into it........

 

[anzac]

just thinking about it some more I don't want to see Flem open in Tests unless we also see some further changes in the middle order so we have some more batsmen who have shown they can build an innings.........

atm we have a series of shot players from 4 - 7 in Styris, McMillan, Cairns & Oram, and this can be prone to collapse like we saw v Shoaib & Sami........

IMO we need at least 1 - 2 batsmen with the temperament to build / save the innings should the top get knocked over early

Astle is one of them and Marshall is currently performing the same role in ODIs & I feel Vincent could also do so...........Fulton also plays in the top 4 but I'm not sure about his style of play but on current form he would also be a contender.......

this is the sort of role that Sinclair seemed ideal for on his debut - until the Aussies showed up his lack of footwork when exposed early to the new ball attack - again the failure of the Openers to provide protection to the middle order.......

it seems that SOOOOO much of the team selection comes down to the questions regarding the openers and then if Cairns & Oram are both to play........

 

[southern man]

I have the feeling that Cumming will get trued as an opener against SA in the tests.

 

[anzac]

I have the feeling that Cumming will get trued as an opener against SA in the tests.

no disrespect to Craig but christ I hope not!!!!!

why would they want to as he's still not a success in ODIs and there are at least 2 - 3 other more 'qualified' contenders in Papps, McIntosh & How....

me thinks that perhaps you are either pulling our leg or you are exhibiting some wishful thinking in support of your local boy ....

maybe (and it's a BIIIG maybe) if he does really really well in the ODI series he may be considered........

 

[FRAZ]

To be honest South Africa dont stand a chance in tests ... My view

 

[Kent]

Cumming was wolf food that survived, Southern Man!

Bracewell admitted as much on the radio this morning. He said they picked Cumming on "character" more than any other credentials. Picking the more fancied youngsters "risked setting their careers back several years".

Not exactly a glowing endorsement, is it? Sounds like he wants to bring in the glory boys from the academy now that a Speights drinker has done the dirty work! 8D

 

[southern man]

He averages 35 in state championship, He has always been a far superior 4 day batsman to one day.
He is a fine 4 day player.

 

[anzac]

He averages 35 in state championship, He has always been a far superior 4 day batsman to one day.
He is a fine 4 day player.

yep but there are still better options..........

 

[Mingster]

Even though Cumming averages 35 in SC, others average higher than him. The likes of...well you know!

Cumming should have gotten a good score in this series. Because he played the same bloody attack for 10 games in a row! Should have gotten used to them by now.

And Mr Mxyzptlk, I think Vettori is a much better spinner than Smith mate!

 

[southern man]

FC averages

papps 37
Cumming 35
Mcintosh 39
Jones 32

Nothing between those four really.
Someone remind me how useless Richardson was at one day level.

 

[Tim]

Nah mate, he's talking about the fact that Rudolph & Graeme Smith will play Vettori easily...and I think that might be the case, South Africa are much better against spin these days.

 

[anzac]

Cumming was wolf food that survived, Southern Man!

Bracewell admitted as much on the radio this morning. He said they picked Cumming on "character" more than any other credentials. Picking the more fancied youngsters "risked setting their careers back several years".

Not exactly a glowing endorsement, is it? Sounds like he wants to bring in the glory boys from the academy now that a Speights drinker has done the dirty work! 8D

but where does that leave the likes of Papps & McIntosh as they're hardly "youngsters" at 24 (25 this year).......look at the number of international batsmen that are playing that are younger than that!!!!

seems to me that the comments are as much a poor reflection on NZ's inability to introduce younger players & the selectors have doubts about their own ability to nurture these players thru their intro to International level..........

if this is so then we should see some new blood in the squads to drip feed them into the arena........particularly with the England tour.......

:!(

 

[anzac]

Cumming should have gotten a good score in this series. Because he played the same bloody attack for 10 games in a row! Should have gotten used to them by now.

yep!!!! not enough return IMO despite his contribution in the field - he is primarily selected to open the batting & to score runs & see off the new ball attack in the 1st 15 overs, neither of which he has been able to do with any regularity - his fielding is a bonus...........

I still think he will start the ODI series v RSA (unless Astle is fit), but if he fails in his primary objectives after 2 - 3 more games then I'd expect a change to be made..........

 

[Tim]

And do you guys honestly think we can pull One Day batsmen from thin air? nope...the selectors made a mess of it though, Cumming was poor in OD cricket last season & good in FC cricket yet for some stupid reason they picked him for ODI's.

Cumming shouldn't be blamed, because he never put the scores on the board in the first place...the blame should be pointed squarely at the selectors.
I think Cumming is a good fielder though, thats one plus about him.