Fleming to open in SA tests?

[southern man]

Cumming was getting confidence back and will gain for it.
He is a very good batsman.

 

[Tim]

And of course, we'd be saying the same thing about Hamish Marshall if he didn't have such a good start to his ODI career.

For a number of years now, the selectors have been picking batsmen on the basis of potential rather than actual performance (because nobody's been outstanding)..that may be beginning to change but it's just the way it has been with NZ cricket.

 

[Mingster]

If Cumming doesn' score in these SS games, and gets selected for SA. Its totally unfair to people who actually are piling on the runs.

And Cumming's fielding won't get him into the team, his batting will. We don't want to do another Vincent...

 

[anzac]

FC averages

papps 37
Cumming 35
Mcintosh 39
Jones 32

Nothing between those four really.
Someone remind me how useless Richardson was at one day level.

it don't mean nothing so far as the selectors are concerned........

remember that Franklin was talked of by Hadlee as the successor to Cairns in the Test team & his Test & FC stats are still as good as the other contenders, yet he hasn't been mentioned since dropped in the VB ODI series........

the other difference for Cumming is that the likes of Papps & McIntosh are scoring well now and over the past 2 - 3 seasons have constantly been at the top of the run scoring.........

IMO Jones & Cumming got the tour to Pakistan as a stop gap, as neither really plays in the style that the selectors have been trying to impart upon the ODI openers

and as a consequence both were included in the recent tour by Pakistan both as a pay off & cover for the batting as they had current experience against their attack, rather than try to debut yet more newbies as openers against the fastest opening bowling attack in International cricket!!!

In all honesty I don't think the selectors were expecting Vincent to crap out as he did, but the pattern in previous squads has been to have batting coverage for the Top order so they were covered...........

on current form I expect to see different opening partnerships by the end of both the ODI & Test series v RSA.........

8D

 

[Mingster]

And of course, we'd be saying the same thing about Hamish Marshall if he didn't have such a good start to his ODI career.

For a number of years now, the selectors have been picking batsmen on the basis of potential rather than actual performance (because nobody's been outstanding)..that may be beginning to change but it's just the way it has been with NZ cricket.

Yeah, we actually have consistent performers onthe first-class scene now unlike a few years ago where we had to pluck a Marshall from nowhere.

 

[Tim]

But nobody has exactly been 'piling on the runs' in the State Shield, sure we've had a couple of centuries, a decent sprinkling of 50's but nobody has consistently gone out & dominated the bowling.

Name me at least 2 batsmen who have consistently scored healthy runs over the 2 or 3 seasons in the State Shield (minus the current Black Caps)..the cupboard is empty.

Cumming will stay & im willing to back his ability.

 

[Tim]

FC batting averages are currently good, but we're talking about OD averages, and they're crap.

 

[Mingster]

But nobody has exactly been 'piling on the runs' in the State Shield, sure we've had a couple of centuries, a decent sprinkling of 50's but nobody has consistently gone out & dominated the bowling.

Name me at least 2 batsmen who have consistently scored healthy runs over the 2 or 3 seasons in the State Shield (minus the current Black Caps)..the cupboard is empty.

Cumming will stay & im willing to back his ability.

Llorne Howell, but he's too old.

I was actually stating that SC has had healthy run-scorers not SS.

Cumming isn't even in form. You're telling me scoring a 40-odd and a 30 is a sign of a batsman in form? And he's had 10 games to show his class.

Papps is averaging over 33 in SS, Fulton the same, Taylor the same...

 

[anzac]

And do you guys honestly think we can pull One Day batsmen from thin air? nope...the selectors made a mess of it though, Cumming was poor in OD cricket last season & good in FC cricket yet for some stupid reason they picked him for ODI's.

Cumming shouldn't be blamed, because he never put the scores on the board in the first place...the blame should be pointed squarely at the selectors.
I think Cumming is a good fielder though, thats one plus about him.

oh I agree on all counts.........

NZ doesn't produce many established ODI middle order batsmen IMO because we have a pre-occupation with this assinine idea of promoting lower order 'allrounder's into the middle order & batting them anywhere from Opener down!!!!!

most of the Shield teams have looked like the WC ODI side - only 3 or so specialist batsmen at the top of the oder & the middle & lower orders made up with 'allrounders'!!!!!!

& as I said above - I think Cumming & Jones got the Home series cbatting cover as a payoff / bonus, but the selectors were not expecting to have to use them........

 

[southern man]

the other difference for Cumming is that the likes of Papps & McIntosh are scoring well now and over the past 2 - 3 seasons have constantly been at the top of the run scoring.........
8D

Now that is complete BULL****
Cumming was the second highest scorer last year and i think the 3rd the year before, Mcintosh out scored him in state championship by 50 runs last season.

DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU POST CRAP LIKE THAT.

 

[Tim]

I never said Cumming was in any form, but I know the selectors will keep him because he managed to at least get into the 30's...it's ridiculous, but thats how it'll work.

The problem here in NZ is that we consider 2 good innings in 6 innings to be form, well bollocks to that..in places like Australia, batsmen go for 8 or 9 innings scoring heavily now thats called form.
Everytime Fleming scores a hundred, there's a mass celebration & everyone claims he's in great form..but then for the next 2 matches he gets scores below 30 & the commentators are STILL claiming he's in teriffic form.

 

[anzac]

But nobody has exactly been 'piling on the runs' in the State Shield, sure we've had a couple of centuries, a decent sprinkling of 50's but nobody has consistently gone out & dominated the bowling.

Name me at least 2 batsmen who have consistently scored healthy runs over the 2 or 3 seasons in the State Shield (minus the current Black Caps)..the cupboard is empty.

Cumming will stay & im willing to back his ability.

the reason why no one outside the Black Caps batsmen score any runs consistantly is because they are about the only 'middle' order batsmen able to retain a start in Shield squads with all the bloody 'allrounders' & pinch hitters.....

 

[Tim]

Thats the ticket!, there are only about 3 or 4 specialist batsmen in each team..the rest are either batting or bowling all-rounders.

 

[anzac]

Now that is complete BULL****
Cumming was the second highest scorer last year and i think the 3rd the year before, Mcintosh out scored him in state championship by 50 runs last season.

DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU POST CRAP LIKE THAT.

ok my mistake - I should have said 'near' the top rather than 'at' the top.....

but my point is still the same when you put it in context that I said that Papps & McIntosh had been scoring well (this season's Championship & Papps more so than McIntosh) and their past 2 - 3 seasons are a back up to this to indicate that it is not some 1 season wonder...........

 

[Tim]

Batting in test cricket is not really the concern though...I'm happy with the amount of runs some openers or batsmen are scoring at domestic level.

OD batting averages are another story and still very poor.

 

[southern man]

Well with my Otago team

Cumming (batsman)
Wasim (batsman)
Gaffney (Batsman)
4 Lawson (batsman)
5 Hopkins (batsman/Wicketkeeper)
6 Wilson (batting all rounder)
7 Mcskimming (bowling allrounder)
8 McCullum ( bowling allrounder)
9 Morland ( bowling Allrounder)
10 Scott ( bowler)
11 Mcmillan

unfortunitley all our lower order all rounders decided to forget how to bat yesterday.

 

[anzac]

I never said Cumming was in any form, but I know the selectors will keep him because he managed to at least get into the 30's...it's ridiculous, but thats how it'll work.

The problem here in NZ is that we consider 2 good innings in 6 innings to be form, well bollocks to that..in places like Australia, batsmen go for 8 or 9 innings scoring heavily now thats called form.
Everytime Fleming scores a hundred, there's a mass celebration & everyone claims he's in great form..but then for the next 2 matches he gets scores below 30 & the commentators are STILL claiming he's in teriffic form.

so do you agree with my post on another thread re McMillan's comments etc.....and the need for more middle order batsmen in the Test squad to force competition for selection??????

 

[Tim]

So thats 4 batsmen...Hopkins is handy with the bat, but no #5 really.

 

[southern man]

He isnt a 5
Most of the season he has been used as a 3 which realy shows the lack of depth we have in our batting.

Wilson is the 3rd highest scorer in this years state shield

You will find that most team will have batting orders like ours.

 

[anzac]

Well with my Otago team

Cumming (batsman)
Wasim (batsman)
Gaffney (Batsman)
4 Lawson (batsman)
5 Hopkins (batsman/Wicketkeeper)
6 Wilson (batting all rounder)
7 Mcskimming (bowling allrounder)
8 McCullum ( bowling allrounder)
9 Morland ( bowling Allrounder)
10 Scott ( bowler)
11 Mcmillan

unfortunitley all our lower order all rounders decided to forget how to bat yesterday.

I take it Wilson is Jeff & he's a bowling allrounder isn't he?????

the other factor to look at is where do these batsmen play in FC games - i.e are they batting up the order in Shield games to make way for 'allrounders' & are the more 'defensive' FC batsmen making way in the middle order.........

I'm not having a go at Otago, but they do not have a bunch of current internationals & so they are able to keep a pretty settled FC & Shield team together, unlike other States who loose FC batsmen when their Internationals return.......hard to gain some consistency........