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Road to the 2015 Ashes in England
- Thread starter vic_orthdox
- Start date
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Well I think that downplays our performance and turnaround here tbf. Nobody was saying India hadn't turned up when they bounced us out at Lord's.
The sheer character the side have shown in the face of the abuse they were getting in the aftermath of Lord's counts for something as well - it's what was lacking after Brisbane, IMO.
We won't have any better opposition between now and the Ashes and you can only beat what's in front of you. Yes, there have been better India sides and some of their dismissals have been, well, poor, but we have got at them as the series has progressed. It's not a case of India not turning up but us turning the screw and them not having the answer, IMO.
Edit - Oz still favourites from and objective pov, I wouldn't deny that. But in English conditions I think Anderson/Broad will do well again against their bats. The change seamer and Ali continuing to perform are going to be vital, given the problem we had with the ball over there was finishing them off
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flibbertyjibber
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Think we will be strong favourites to be beaten but home advantage and the fact none of the Aussies have actually won here plus the fact Johnson has more demons to conquer give us hope. They have an old side in key areas and we have seen with England it can fall apart very quickly so the next 6 months will be fascinating.
I think you can safely say that England can rely on Anderson and Broad to be there and at a decent/good level as they usually are in English conditions but the rest of our attack is stepping up a level and nobody knows if they will be up to it until they get there. Same goes for Ballance, he may be having a golden summer but has he got the technique to cope with the pace barrage next summer?
We know the Aussies will want to batter us with pace again but Johnson has a dreadful record here, Harris could be injured again and the kids can't play more than a game without a limb falling off which leaves Siddle who will get bagged all winter again but still put in solid performances. Lyon should be treated better next tour than his last here but he is no Warne and we play ordinary off spin fairly well usually.
New Zealand will be a tough test next summer in the ashes lead up and at least we will be battle hardened, may not be good enough but we will have no excuses.
I think you can safely say that England can rely on Anderson and Broad to be there and at a decent/good level as they usually are in English conditions but the rest of our attack is stepping up a level and nobody knows if they will be up to it until they get there. Same goes for Ballance, he may be having a golden summer but has he got the technique to cope with the pace barrage next summer?
We know the Aussies will want to batter us with pace again but Johnson has a dreadful record here, Harris could be injured again and the kids can't play more than a game without a limb falling off which leaves Siddle who will get bagged all winter again but still put in solid performances. Lyon should be treated better next tour than his last here but he is no Warne and we play ordinary off spin fairly well usually.
New Zealand will be a tough test next summer in the ashes lead up and at least we will be battle hardened, may not be good enough but we will have no excuses.
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
This is definitely true. But no one has really grabbed the third seamers role (and now fourth) since, 2011 (?). If Finn can make the necessary improvements, if, then he should definitely be in contention. I'd be tempted to say his performances in 2012 at Lords v Saffa and the Kolkata test were probably the best non Jimmy or Broad seam bowling performances we've had in the last two years.
flibbertyjibber
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Yeah after that ashes tour when we had Tremlett and Bresnan at a high level and then they put in good performances that summer before both got injured and never returned the same bowler we have gone through lots of bowlers and only Finn has put in a class display in a test outside our opening bowlers. Not many options around in county cricket either by the looks unless they take a punt on a kid like they did Broad and persevere through some inept displays.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
TBF we basically gifted Ishant test best figures at Lords, don't want to downplay his bowling too much, but we really rolled over for a tummy tickle; Rahane, Vijay and Kumar aside none of the Indian line up has really fronted up.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It's impossible to hammer a side without most of its players individually failing though. I certainly can't remember the last time a team lost by an innings but left me thinking "well every member of that side fronted up and performed", because cricket is a zero-sum game.
The holy grail of the cricket analyst is to differentiate good bowling from poor batting, and good batting from poor bowling, and I feel a lot of the time we just end up too influenced by our pre-conceived ideas about the players involved and natural pessimism/optimism (delete as applicable to your personality) towards the team we're supporting.
The holy grail of the cricket analyst is to differentiate good bowling from poor batting, and good batting from poor bowling, and I feel a lot of the time we just end up too influenced by our pre-conceived ideas about the players involved and natural pessimism/optimism (delete as applicable to your personality) towards the team we're supporting.
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BoyBrumby
Englishman
It's possible for teams to be completely overmatched in terms of talent and performance potential (& I don't even think this Indian side is, especially) and still front up.
I don't want to downplay our achievement (the turnaround from Lords is very impressive), but India have fallen off a cliff completely. The three players I mentioned have suffered a slight (and probably inevitable) reversion to the mean and no-one has stepped up to fill in the gaps.
Anyway, as this is an Ashes thread, I'll summarise: fragile green shoots of optimism, but still two seamers' and one opener's spots up for grabs and cause for concern how Ali and (to lesser extents) Ballance and Root play the short stuff.
I don't want to downplay our achievement (the turnaround from Lords is very impressive), but India have fallen off a cliff completely. The three players I mentioned have suffered a slight (and probably inevitable) reversion to the mean and no-one has stepped up to fill in the gaps.
Anyway, as this is an Ashes thread, I'll summarise: fragile green shoots of optimism, but still two seamers' and one opener's spots up for grabs and cause for concern how Ali and (to lesser extents) Ballance and Root play the short stuff.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah obviously it is, I just don't think we'd ever see it like that if it happened, unless we had pre-conceived ideas about the teams going in that made us think it'd be a complete mismatch before a ball was even bowled.
I'm not saying what's happened here, necessarily, is that England just outplayed a perfectly functional India side. I'm just saying that if that did happen, we wouldn't analyse it like that. As a whole I just don't think we're as good as differentiating good batting from poor bowling or good bowling from poor batting as we like to think.
The pessimist in us all will always find a way to play down a massive win in our own minds by discrediting the opposition because they got hammered, despite the fact that it's impossible to have a big win without the opposition experiencing a big loss.
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GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Three question marks you complete and utter tool
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
The large gap between tests can work both ways for Robson. Obviously a long gap means whoever the incumbent was can be quickly forgotten, but similarly I can't recall a winter where we played a test series so late. County form will be pretty irrelevant by next April so there won't be many new contenders.
Someone needs to go off to SA or NZ this winter and score runs, and the position will probably be there's.
Someone needs to go off to SA or NZ this winter and score runs, and the position will probably be there's.
Blocky
Banned
The best possible thing to happen to England between now and then is be on the end of some catastrophic failures... because if they go in with the idea that Cook is the guy to lead them and that they don't need to worry about guys like Trott and Pietersen, they'll get spunked all over.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Who's worrying about Trott or Pietersen?
Blocky
Banned
Australia would, if you got Trott back to his mental self and Pietersen back in the side.
morgieb
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And if my nan had balls she'd be my uncle.
Yeah, there is just no chance Cook is ever going to beat Australia in a test series in England. Just won't happen.
Flem274*
123/5
actually she'd be your granddad
