*Official** New Zealand in England

[Token]

It's hard to tell what the squads will be yet as the South African series will be what decides who goes and who stays, i.e if Cumming has a goodish innings in the last ODI here then plays averagely against South Africa I'd imagine he won't be going. If he plays several good innings against the Saffas then I would think the selectors would keep him on (the old saying - it's harder to get out of the NZ team than to get in it)
The only ones you can be sure are going, no matter what their form in the up-coming series will be
Fleming
Richardson
Tuffey
Styris
McCullum
Vettori (like Cairns would never be dropped unless injured I'm sure)
Cairns
Oram
Marshall
Astle & Bond if fit
I don't think McMillan has done quite enough yet to cement his place in the one-day squad at least I mean if he has a very poor next series his place would be in Jeopardy. Likewise Hart even though McCullum is sh*thouse keeper he would be a more suitable choice if Hart fails miserable with the bat and is average with the gloves. Mills, Adams, Butler, Mason etc. would all be fighting for the third genuine bowler spot along Tuffey and Bond (assuming fit)

 

[Richard]

yet another grafter from NZ who relies on discipline more than natural talent.

Grafting is a natural talent.
You can't teach a batsman discretion. Otherwise Flintoff (and many, many others, Shahid Afridi and the like) would have been averaging about 100 in Test-cricket.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: New Zealand in England disussion thread

We also have a strike bowler who will be fit by then with the name of BOND.

If Trescothick has any overt trouble with Bond, even if there's a bit of seam-movement, I'll be very surprised indeed.
And if Trescothick doesn't have trouble with someone, it's highly unlikely anyone else will.

 

[Craig]

If Jones does tour Richard, you might see why he scores lots of runs in domestic cricket in NZ, certainly has an interesting batting stance.

 

[Richard]

If someone is scoring domestic runs, really their style of play shouldn't bar any holds to international selection.
Especially if they're defensive players.

 

[Craig]

Bruce Martin's claims for for a call-up get louder. He's been Northern Districts best player by a long way.

 

[Tim]

I'd agree, I've rated Martin as a future NZ spinner for sometime now and he this season he seems to be doing really well.

 

[nibbs]

Lou Vincent is crap and shouldn't play for NZ ever again. IMO, he's only there because of two test 100s. Other than those two knocks he's done little. But then again Matt Sinclair made 214, 150 and 204*, and has been dropped, so maybe they can see something I can't see. IMO, players like Tim McIntosh should get given a serious consideration for those up coming tours. He's got a solid record and I think it would come in handy.

If we don't have Bond which is quite likely it can't be that bad, cause I'd expect to some bowler friendly pitches (this is an assumption, can an englishmen confirm) in England, so hopefully Tuffey and co. can exploit this.

If we have Bond we'll win for sure, so I hope he goes there. I'd also expect to fit, especially by May. There are hopes he'll be ready for the Yarpies in a few weeks time...

 

[Craig]

Unlikely.

The ECB is obessed for some reason with flat wickets.

If NZ played at Headingly, Tuffey would probably have a few Englishmen for dinner.

 

[Richard]

Lou Vincent is crap and shouldn't play for NZ ever again. IMO, he's only there because of two test 100s. Other than those two knocks he's done little. But then again Matt Sinclair made 214, 150 and 204*, and has been dropped, so maybe they can see something I can't see. IMO, players like Tim McIntosh should get given a serious consideration for those up coming tours. He's got a solid record and I think it would come in handy.

The reason Vincent played so many times was surely because of that unbelievable Test-debut. About a year later, after thinking "why on Earth has he been doing so poorly, after a debut like his?" I looked at his First-Class record!
I hope he doesn't play for NZ again unless he improves his First-Class record.

If we don't have Bond which is quite likely it can't be that bad, cause I'd expect to some bowler friendly pitches (this is an assumption, can an englishmen confirm) in England, so hopefully Tuffey and co. can exploit this.

If we have Bond we'll win for sure, so I hope he goes there. I'd also expect to fit, especially by May. There are hopes he'll be ready for the Yarpies in a few weeks time...

I can confirm that it is highly unlikely that you'll see very much grass on the wickets.
I wouldn't like you to say anything for sure until the series is underway. I still think Bond is likely to be exposed in the England series if conditions are as I expect.

 

[marc71178]

I'd agree, I've rated Martin as a future NZ spinner for sometime now and he this season he seems to be doing really well.

The thing is, unless NZ play 2 spinners, he's not likely to play is he?

He's only 15 months younger than Vettori.

 

[Tim]

You're right, It's unlikely NZ will play 2 spinners in the next while anyway..the only time they would probably do that would be on the sub-continent.

They may pick Martin for the tour of England, so that if Vettori is injured or needs a rest during the mid-week Martin can fill in.

 

[Rik]

Re: Re: Re: New Zealand in England disussion thread

I'm not quite sure about that.

You seem to be forgetting Tresco's last innings in England was that double-ton against South Africa who had the year's top wicket taker in Ntini and also had Polly...

 

[Mingster]

My NZ Squad

Tests

Mark Richardson
Richard Jones
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Nathan Astle
Craig McMillan
Hamish Marshall
Chris Cairns
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Robbie Hart
Kyle Mills
Daniel Vettori
Daryl Tuffey
Shane Bond
Ian Butler

One Day Internations

Craig Cumming
Stephen Fleming
Lou Vincent / Chris Nevin
Hamish Marshall
Scott Styris
Nathan Astle
Craig McMillan
Chris Cairns
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Kyle Mills
Matthew Walker
Daryl Tuffey
Shand Bond

I won't select Marshall on his ODI form alone for Tests. He has to perform at State Championship level. ODI form means nothing.

And why would you have Vincent/Nevin? Both are proven failures..

It's too bloody early to name these sides because there is still heaps of cricket to be played.

But the most interesting match-up will be:

Oram v Flintoff

Unless Cairns can suddenly take a truckload of wickets, I can't see a place for him in the Test side. His batting is not suited at 6, and his medium-fasts aren't as penetrating anymore.

Interesting how our make-up of our attack will be as well. With Styris as the 5th seamer, I wonder if we will play Butler, Bond, Tuffey in tandem leaving out an unlucky Oram.

And RICHARD, how will Bond get exposed? His pace takes the pitch out of the equation.

 

[Mingster]

Kyle Mills might be a bolter for the Tests. He came extremely close last year, when the selectors would thinking of either Mills, Oram or Mason. But Oram got the nod.

Mills has shown he can swing the new ball and bowls a pretty handy leg-cutter as well. He wouldn't make a shabby 3rd Test seamer and would offer more abilities than Oram as a bowler.

Mills also has a first-class batting average of 40+ and bats in the middle-order.

 

[Tim]

In the NZ team though, Mills would be lucky to bat higher than 9, the selectors seem to pick him more as a bowler.

 

[Mingster]

In the NZ team though, Mills would be lucky to bat higher than 9, the selectors seem to pick him more as a bowler.

Maybe because the people ahead of him are Oram and McCullum....:rolleyes:

 

[nibbs]

Cairns is beginning to regain his form. In the last two ODIs he bowled very well. He'll be there for sure.

Mills isn't a good enough bowler IMO. He's no good at the death and even when not bowling at the death he seems unable to ball a good line and length ball after ball after ball.

 

[Richard]

You seem to be forgetting Tresco's last innings in England was that double-ton against South Africa who had the year's top wicket taker in Ntini and also had Polly...

He's always done well at The Oval - nice batting wicket, easily the best in the land, and nothing whatsoever offered to Ntini and Pollock.
Both brilliant bowlers when there's movement off the seam but when there isn't, they're not much of a threat. And no taking away from the double-century, it was unbelievable by Trescothick standards, but it was also, I'm quite sure, the sort of innings a batsman plays once in a lifetime.
I don't think Trescothick is good enough to play like that again.

 

[Richard]

And RICHARD, how will Bond get exposed? His pace takes the pitch out of the equation.

Rubbish. Pace takes nothing out of the equation.
I would have thought the antiquated theory that "pace" bowling is effective on any wicket would have been dispelled by now.
Regardless of the pace you bowl at, you have to move the ball to be effective against decent batsmen. Bond is OK at seam and can swing the white ball, but I've yet to see him swing the red one, conventionally or reverse. Nor am I to see the evidence that he can he bowl the cutters that make good bowlers great ones.
The wickets are unlikely to offer any seam-movement, Bond is unlikely to move the ball, the batsmen are likely to play well, and bowling at 90 mph won't create errors.
See?