***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[hendrix]

jesus if Wagner doesn't play the first test after being the bowler who took the best returns against India I will cry.

It's especially ludicrous with Williamson in the team.

 

[Kippax]

Nah Sodhi's going to be hidden in the shrubs for long periods. When you check the TV or Cricinfo each morning, chances are you'll see the Craig/Williamson partnership wheeling away.

 

[Kippax]

Steven Jacobs and Veerasammy Permaul ball by ball vs Jamaica - YouTube

Had a quick look at Jermaine Blackwood batting.

Tbf to Hesson, you look at how potent and transformed Permaul can look with a Duke and a WI pitch, after averaging about 66 on NZ's roads.

 

[Maximas]

Wagner's strength as a bowler appears to be his ability to take wickets in unfriendly conditions, given that's what NZ will be facing on this tour it seems a little ludicrous to leave him out of the starting line-up if that's what they do

 

[WindieWeathers]

Kemar Roach is playing his first game in around six months today for his club side in Barbados...so if he comes through that ok then he'll be on track to face the kiwis. It is hoped that he'll take part in the warm up games against them first too.

If Kemar is fit then our attack should be something like this..

Roach
Narine
Benn/Shillingford
Taylor/Holder

Which of course is a totally different animal to what NZ faced last year..meanwhile the batting has options and it's tough to know exactly how they'll go..

Gayle

Edwards
Darren Bravo
Chanderpaul

Ramdin (c) (wk)

Are certain to play right now but the two remaining spots remains a mystery. An in form Samuels would of course play but he's been off-form for a while now and they could go with Dwayne Bravo or Jermaine Blackwood for that number six role tbh..while either Kraigg or Powell will partner Gayle.

In the last series our bottom order kept falling apart but i'm hoping with Taylor, Holder and Benn possibly being involved it should have more fight in it...in the end that proved to be a big factor where NZ were concerned as their tail kept wagging and giving us too much to do.

In closing some have looked to NZ's draw in Sri-lanka to gain confidence and having watched that series it was a good comeback from NZ..but still from what i remember Hereth was getting wickets for fun but had no decent spinner alongside him to keep the pressure on...Narine WILL have back-up here though .

 

[Kippax]

Wagner's strength as a bowler appears to be his ability to take wickets in unfriendly conditions, given that's what NZ will be facing on this tour it seems a little ludicrous to leave him out of the starting line-up if that's what they do

There's no proof of that really. Wagner used his stamina to achieve an attritional fivefer that didn't lead to a win in Bangladesh. Big whoop. Had no answers for Dean Elgar on an unhelpful Port Elizabeth surface. The West Indies smashed his pitiable and demented offerings in 2012.

I'm hugely on Hesson's side in this now, after finishing my viewing of all of Williamson's ball-by-ball footage in 2012. Orbit the Duke across the seam, land ball on the pronounced seam, hit splice or glove, cause problems.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, people under-estimate how much the West Indian conditions really do change the game. They're not like the Bangladesh surfaces that just massively negate fast bowling; they really bring spinners into the game. I don't really think they're likely to improve Sodhi much as getting his good balls to pose problems has never been his problem (more actually bowling them in the first place..) but someone like Craig will be far more effective there than he is at home.

 

[hendrix]

Fair enough, and I was by no means Wagner's biggest fan.

With that said, NZ would have won that first test against Bangladesh had Wagner been playing ahead of any one of Sodhi, Bartin, or Bracewell.

 

[Prince EWS]

I actually think I'd probably leave Sodhi out. He just doesn't bowl enough good deliveries to take advantage of the conditions. Craig from what I've seen in the vault actually bowls quite a lot of good deliveries - good areas, well flighted, nice shape - that just end up innocuous because of the conditions he bowls in. I'm not saying Craig is a long- or even medium-term Test prospect but if the pitches in the West Indies play as they have the last few seasons he'll be a bigger threat than Wagner for mine.

I'd still play Wagner ahead of Sodhi tbh, but I don't think picking two non-Williamson spinners would really be a horrible decision, and I went on record saying I did in Bangladesh.

 

[Hurricane]

I actually think I'd probably leave Sodhi out. He just doesn't bowl enough good deliveries to take advantage of the conditions. Craig from what I've seen in the vault actually bowls quite a lot of good deliveries - good areas, well flighted, nice shape - that just end up innocuous because of the conditions he bowls in. I'm not saying Craig is a long- or even medium-term Test prospect but if the pitches in the West Indies play as they have the last few seasons he'll be a bigger threat than Wagner for mine.

Lets hope he lives up to his modest hype that is developing on CW. Lets hope the occassion doesn't get to him and that he doesn't do a Bartin.

 

[hendrix]

I actually think I'd probably leave Sodhi out. He just doesn't bowl enough good deliveries to take advantage of the conditions. Craig from what I've seen in the vault actually bowls quite a lot of good deliveries - good areas, well flighted, nice shape - that just end up innocuous because of the conditions he bowls in. I'm not saying Craig is a long- or even medium-term Test prospect but if the pitches in the West Indies play as they have the last few seasons he'll be a bigger threat than Wagner for mine.

Agree, I'd be doing the same.

It helps if we can imagine Craig as a spin bowling allrounder, and then we have basically the same lineup as the Wellington test against the Indians except with Craig over Neesham in a horses-for-courses policy.

I just don't think we can expect many overs from Anderson, which is why Wagner should play.

If Southee or Boult is having an off spell we don't want to be giving a relatively new ball to Anderson. Similarly, if we're pushing a follow on, we don't want to go from 4 overs of Southee-Boult straight into Anderson+spinner.

 

[Maximas]

There's no proof of that really. Wagner used his stamina to achieve an attritional fivefer that didn't lead to a win in Bangladesh. Big whoop. Had no answers for Dean Elgar on an unhelpful Port Elizabeth surface. The West Indies smashed his pitiable and demented offerings in 2012.

19 overs and 5/64 is hardly what I'd call an attritional five-for, he was more incisive than any spinner or other fast bowler who went on that tour. While he was pretty **** for the first few games in WI and SA, his efforts against England at home on decks that were flatter than flat at times (particularly Dunedin) and then again against India recently where he took plenty wickets on what were reasonably flat decks. Wagner always looks like the weak link on seaming decks, but when the going gets tough Wagner delivers his best, while I'm undecided on how many spinners should be picked I think of all the seamers Wagner may just have the most to offer and should be picked.

 

[hendrix]

Nah Wagner's not even close to being more effective than Southee or Boult, no matter what conditions we're talking.

It's also worth considering that Wagner got his wickets with short pitched bowling against the Bangladeshis and Indians who couldn't handle it. I don't think the Indians are so susceptible to that.

He must play though because Anderson's overs aren't going to be worth much at all and we need a 3rd seamer if we ever get the chance to enforce a follow on etc.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm just happy that if we're going to pick a bolter for a position we have no quality in, we're picking a bloke who tries to bowl like a long form spinner. Considering the amount of limited overs types who can do some batting we have, we could easily have picked one of them and I'm glad we've encouraged Craig instead since his style suits tests.

 

[Days of Grace]

How's young Craig with the bat?

 

[Kippax]

How's young Craig with the bat?

Left-hand bat, nice setup and looks like he has good application, but he's 116/7 off 50 overs against PS spinners (once you've stripped the Nicol and Devcich types out). Seems most of those dismissals are defensive, a few where he's playing for too much turn.

Against the same group of bowlers since 2011, Wagner 114/7 off 39 overs. NcCullum 103/2 (32 ov), Neesham 305/5 (59 ov), Butler 67/1 (35 ov).

 

[Prince EWS]

Seems most of those dismissals are defensive, a few where he's playing for too much turn.

Should be pinging them right out of the middle in the Caribbean then.

 

[hendrix]

Musing Kemar Roach might play the first test. I'm not sure that's a good idea given he hasn't played competitive cricket in months.

 

[BackFootPunch]

How's young Craig with the bat?

Nice. Certainly a more than capable 8 or 9, I reckon. Has scored plenty of runs batting in the middle order at club and Provincial A level. Is basically a proper all-rounder at all levels except FC, by which I mean he's not just a capable batsman but is actually somewhat used to constructing an innings and batting a long time etc. Different to someone like Southee who can hit but doesn't necessarily bat like a batsman would.

 

[Hurricane]

Nice. Certainly a more than capable 8 or 9, I reckon. Has scored plenty of runs batting in the middle order at club and Provincial A level. Is basically a proper all-rounder at all levels except FC, by which I mean he's not just a capable batsman but is actually somewhat used to constructing an innings and batting a long time etc. Different to someone like Southee who can hit but doesn't necessarily bat like a batsman would.

I love this post. What I enjoyed about it was the description that he is an allrounder at all levels except for FC. Just shows you how good that level is even though we often crack jokes about how number 8s can ton up at will in the PS.