Peter Moores gets a second bite of the apple

[grecian]

Think this article makes a lot of good points

Makes a lot of **** points as well.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

good article, except as noted there isn't an obvious solution to cook as captain

The only solution would be taking a South African type punt like they did with Smith. Only candidate for that is Root and he hasn't even got a proper batting position yet thanks to being messed about.

 

[mono]

superb article. As an outsider, i would like to know who, if not cook, should be the next captain. Is there a graeme smith in the english team. some one who is relatively young yet capable of taking on the role for the long term

 

[Jono]

Makes a lot of **** points as well.

I don't agree with all his points either, and feel his CWesque criticisms of Cook's batting were lame, but what do you think of his overall premise? Specifically his last 7-8 paragraphs which I think is the strongest part of his article?

 

[DingDong]

would england or australia dare pull a move like this on a board like the bcci

the scum boards are destroying the goodwill and respect among the test countries

 

[grecian]

I don't agree with all his points either, and feel his CWesque criticisms of Cook's batting were lame, but what do you think of his overall premise? Specifically his last 7-8 paragraphs which I think is the strongest part of his article?

Well it's certainly the strength of the article, because it's not complete Rubbish*, yet in the end there is no remote choice for Captain other than Cook, you hope as a young man he can improve, and he and Moores and Farbrace can give him new more adventurous ideas. He was unimaginative, but then perhaps those were the plans from Flower. Who knows. To say it's not a new dynamic is nonsense though this Triumverate haven't worked together. I don't see how things like the head Coach and supporting coaches haven't been changed. Scheduling was poor admittedly, but I'm not a fan of that excuse, reasonably sure Oz played the same Tests, but anyway it's a long-term thing, we can't change it over-night.

* I will mention some of the most annoying bits about the first bit. Whining that they didn't announce Peter Moores' failures at a Press Conference to herald him as leader, is beautifully risible, I mean because (and he used a rubbish soccer analogy) when Manchester United announce their successor I'm sure they'll lead with any blots on his career, because that's what you do with these things isn't it?

The Swann, and Strauss things have been taken out of context, and is totally quoting things with no perspective. To say Moores had no part in selecting Swann is pathetic. Vaughan falling out with him is a plus in my book, particularly as at the time MPV was weighing the team down with his sub-standard batting, and the fact he's turned out to be a total knob after. The simple fact is if Fletcher had been in charge Swann would not have played for England. Flintoff got on well with Moores, so this can't handle big characters view, doesn't seem to work as Freddy was by far the biggest at the time.

Oh and there's the glorious straw-man about some people saying that Moores first spell in charge was successful, who exactly is saying that.

The entire Cook stuff does seem like CW101 too. Pews is utterly right in saying that people score runs for the era they play in, it matters little how their technique would stand-up to other eras. We all know empirically that every ball in the 90s was an unplayable swing yorker from Wasim, or a deadly throat-ball from Ambrose, and that every ball nowadays is a long-hop by Ishant or an half-volley by Albie Morkel. Yet that truth, and whether Stewart and the hideously over-rated Atherton would have scored more than Cook is irrelevant because Cook is probably now the World's best opener, even in this shocking anti-evolutionary era.

Throwing over-rated around too (is he a member of this forum), just because you have to admit he's good but you don't really like him, is another bug-bear of mine. Also no-one much thought that Clarke or Strauss were great captains at first, you pick a player that's good enough and hope he evolves.

I'm not saying anything about this is perfect, and I'm not saying that it'll work, I don't have a crystal-ball, but I really see nothing innovative or clever in the article, but ho-hum that's just me.

 

[mono]

If Cook was being unimaginative because Flower wanted him to be as such, then Cook is definitely not fit to captain england.

 

[sledger]

I just think it's hypocritical to keep saying "It's a team sport! It's a team sport!", and then claim that as a single individual, KP could have been so disruptive. As the best player in the team, perhaps his sharp criticisms of the (then) current strategy/planning should have been given more weight. I sometimes feel England used KP throughout his career as a mascot and as a conduit for success, and when he tried to get things done in a better way, each time he was swept away by the captain-coach-administration "We're-English-And-Follow-Decorum" setup.

Yeah, because no one person could ever disrupt the togetherness of a team...

 

[Sean Flynn]

I know one bloke who will be very happy at the Moores appointment...a certain Mr Lehmann. He knows that a Moores-Cook alliance will not remotely threaten Australia's present hold on the Ashes. And the Ashes is what we should be planning for.

 

[Furball]

It's a reasonably decent argument that's let down by a lot of irrelevant drivel and factually incorrect rubbish, particularly the below:

Had he done so he would have seen that (a) all of the batsmen were failing collectively, and the top seven (with the exception of Ian Bell) had performed well below their best since the summer of 2011

 

[Furball]

The point about Gooch irritated me as well. Yeah the batsmen have collectively been ****ing awful over the last couple of years and Gooch should probably pay for that as that's his responsibility, but it also ignores the sea change between 2009-11 that also occurred under Gooch.

I don't think Gooch can necessarily be blamed for a decline in England's stalwarts; Father Time has played a much bigger part.

The bowling is interesting though; Saker seems to be to Finn what Cooley was to Anderson.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I'm deeply dippy about Fairbrass' appointment as assistant coach. He should bring a lot more pizazz to the England set-up, and boy do they need it. I'm sure Fred will agree with me, right?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

The bowling is interesting though; Saker seems to be to Finn what Cooley was to Anderson.

Which is interesting as he has done well with Anderson and Broad.

 

[King Pietersen]

Does Moores coming back mean that Ashes hero Simon Kerrigan could return to the side? Moores will have seen a lot of him, he took 5 wickets in Moores' last game in charge of Lancs, and the distinct lack of spinning options could mean he gets a run in the side. Wouldn't surprise me if he was given another go!

 

[Furball]

Does Moores coming back mean that Ashes hero Simon Kerrigan could return to the side? Moores will have seen a lot of him, he took 5 wickets in Moores' last game in charge of Lancs, and the distinct lack of spinning options could mean he gets a run in the side. Wouldn't surprise me if he was given another go!

Sounds great, nothing bad could possibly come from playing a hopeless spinner against India.

 

[Shri]

Sounds great, nothing bad could possibly come from playing a hopeless spinner against India.

Swann and Monty did well.

 

[Sean Flynn]

I'm deeply dippy about Fairbrass' appointment as assistant coach. He should bring a lot more pizazz to the England set-up, and boy do they need it. I'm sure Fred will agree with me, right?

Pizazz or pizza??

 

[marc71178]

It's amazing how coaching england is considered a second tier job to coaching in the IPL. :o

It's similarly amazing how coaching Sri Lanka is considered a second tier job to being an assistant coach with England.

 

[grecian]

It's similarly amazing how coaching Sri Lanka is considered a second tier job to being an assistant coach with England.

Well the talk is that it will be pretty hands-on on some of the tours, I really do think he'll be the one to really lead the limited-overs stuff. Yet TBH, I'm glad they called it this way, to say the head coach is detached from a great percentage of what England play just seems silly, I mean you need to meld the personalities of the squad and keep a regimen of fitness and coaching throughout. Some different ideas for limited-overs is welcome, but to make it seem a disparate body, is just silly.

 

[FBU]

It's similarly amazing how coaching Sri Lanka is considered a second tier job to being an assistant coach with England.

I don't think it is. What we have is 2 England coaches sharing the job. Farbrace will be learning about the England set up from Moores but the talk is Farbrace will lead tours himself when Moores needs a rest. I wouldn't be surprised if Farbrace is in charge of the England squad for the 2015 World Cup in Australia and New Zealand. I was under the impression that Downton chose Farbrace but I read that Moores was given a choice of two or three coaches to pick from.

Farbrace should not be with England until the Sri Lanka tour has finished.

My choice of coach would have been Strauss. I felt a lot of his ideas were behind England getting to number 1. Without him Flower wilted.