Leg Spin

[hourn]

Jenner wasn't especially brilliant as a bowler, he's just the "spin doctor".

Anyone who seriously considers MacGill even close to international standard needs to check his record. He's averaged well for a few one- or two-off Tests, and against England in 1998\99 (plus Bangladesh in 2003, but that really counts for less than a Pura Cup game).
The rest have either been poor or abysmal.

yes, he's record of 147 wickets at 28.63 from 30 tests for a leg spinner is an absolute abysmal, along with his 512 FC wickets at 29.36 is the worlds premier domestic competion.

and a very even record against the board against all nations except for India (averaging 50 per wicket) whom even the great Shane Warne struggles against. He averages 32 or lower against all other nations, including 25.66 against South Africa from limited appearances against them (clearly the second best team during MacGills time).

As proven by his "abysmal" record, only the very best leg spinners to have walked this earth have equal or better records than MacGill - those include a pretty formidale trio of O'Reilly, Grimmett and Warne, along with two pretty handy bowlers in Kumble and Benaud......

 

[Shane Warne]

Kumble hardly spins it.. He just bowls flat and quick, with a few googlys thrown in....

its called overspin

 

[Salamuddin]

Kumble has certainly added some variations to his bowling from when I last saw him.

He was clearly the outstanding bowler in the just concluded test series between australia and India.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yes, Kumble did look outstanding in the recent series.

 

[Jono]

Kumble hardly spins it.. He just bowls flat and quick, with a few googlys thrown in....

That's what makes him different from the "I'll throw this up and hope it spins a lot" bowlers. He varies his pace and has a brilliant cricketing attitude. He's the best leg spinner going around right now in my opinion, and may be even when Warne returns because 12 months away from the game can't do you any good.

 

[Richard]

yes, he's record of 147 wickets at 28.63 from 30 tests for a leg spinner is an absolute abysmal, along with his 512 FC wickets at 29.36 is the worlds premier domestic competion.

and a very even record against the board against all nations except for India (averaging 50 per wicket) whom even the great Shane Warne struggles against. He averages 32 or lower against all other nations, including 25.66 against South Africa from limited appearances against them (clearly the second best team during MacGills time).

As proven by his "abysmal" record, only the very best leg spinners to have walked this earth have equal or better records than MacGill - those include a pretty formidale trio of O'Reilly, Grimmett and Warne, along with two pretty handy bowlers in Kumble and Benaud......

And none of them have thus far had the fortune to play Bangladesh.
While MacGill may average less than 32 against all nations bar India, he also averages over 30 against all proper Test nations bar Pakistan (3 Tests) and South Africa (2).
MacGill has had 2 good Test-series', plus one against the excuse for a Test nation. The others were in Pakistan and against England in 1998\9 (and like it or not, England were almost as bad against spin, especially wristspin, as Bangladesh are now in those days). He also had a good average in two one-off Tests against South Africa.
You can only pull the wool over the eyes with generalisations with some people. I am not one of them, though I admit I didn't realise MacGill's record was quite as bad as it is until david pointed it out to me.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Anyone who rates MacGill is insane.

 

[Richard]

I rate him!...





... as a totally hopeless, palpably substandard Test bowler.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Lol. Me too.

 

[hourn]

Stuart MacGill career summary


good consistent records against all counties except India.


The fact he's only played 2 tests against Pakistan and 3 against South Africa is not something he can do anything about, but in his time against them he has done well.

In each calendar year he's held a sound record bar 2004 - even Warne went three consecutive years prior to his fantastic 2002 with an average in the thirties for each year.

And featuring in 11 different series over his career has really only had two poor series - India 03/04 and England 02/03. Everything else has been reasonably sound including a few cracker series.

For a replacement spinner, he is more than handy.


And just out of interest, have you noticed Muralitharan's averages against Bangladesh (2 tests, 20 wkts at 10.45) and Zimbabwe (12 tests, 73 wkts at 17.09).

Warne would love to have been given the luxury of 12 tests against Zimbabwe.

 

[Richard]

If you consider between 30 and 32 "good" then you're championing mediocrity IMO.
IMO a bowler has to average under 30 in Test-cricket to be considered even a remote success (really has to average under 27 to be considered a REAL success).
If you remove MacGill's recent Tests against Bangladesh his average is 30.70.
I'm sure Warne would love to have had the luxury of 12 Tests against Zimbabwe, and I wouldn't begrudge him it, but what this has to do with MacGill I'm not sure - no-one in their right mind considers him even close to Muralitharan.
MacGill's record against Zimbabwe is poor enough, anyway.

 

[Warne is god]

How can MacGill even be considered, He can't bat can't bowl and can't field COME ON

 

[Deja moo]

Mushtaq Ahmed. He did outdone by the Pakistani selectors

I heard that Mshtaq Ahmed isnt selected by the pakistani selectors because he wont live in Pakistan....He seems to be living in England so he can gain a citizenship....I for one, am with the selectors....why choose a guy in your team if he isnt willing to live in your country?

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

I think that Stuart MacGill has a fine Test Match Record, though he did not have a great series against India. Kumble was much better than MacGill in the Australia v India Test Series.

MacGill though is too expensive and this hampers his chances to be in the ODI team also.

 

[Adamc]

I heard that Mshtaq Ahmed isnt selected by the pakistani selectors because he wont live in Pakistan....He seems to be living in England so he can gain a citizenship....I for one, am with the selectors....why choose a guy in your team if he isnt willing to live in your country?

Don't know if the above is true or not, but he did play in the recent home series against SA, in which he was outbowled by Danish Kaneria. IMO Kaneria is good enough to hold his spot in the team ahead of Mushtaq.

 

[Tom Halsey]

How can MacGill even be considered, He can't bat can't bowl and can't field COME ON

This is my opinion also, but some people for some reason actually rate him. :P

 

[marc71178]

I heard that Mshtaq Ahmed isnt selected by the pakistani selectors because he wont live in Pakistan.

Erm, he was selected by the Pakistani selectors recently though.

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

I would rate Kumble slightly ahead of MacGill

 

[Tom Halsey]

I rate Jaques Rudolph a better leggie than MacGill.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Now you're being silly...