New Zealand Off Season 2014

[Athlai]

Devcich also makes the grade as "a good player of spin" according to this panel tbh. Doubt Phlegm would bow down to Hesson's definition of "a good player of spin" at this point.

Hey hey hey

My argument was never that he deserved to be there. Just that he'd be considered.

 

[Kippax]

Batted as a red ball No. 4 at times on last year's A tour, so we already knew the hierarchy rate the way he refuses to die in a hole against spin.

 

[Athlai]

If you could say that so it would more pointedly deride Phlegm I'd appreciate it.

 

[African Monkey]

Well even though Rutherford and Fulton wouldn't have been most peoples picks, I must commend the selectors of the faith they've shown with these guys, a far-cry from days gone by.

As for Mark Craig, he would have been my pick with our lack of spin options so no issues with that selection either.

 

[Flem274*]

"Farmboy raver". Yeah the agribusiness community have always wanted to bury Jeets. A real 'gravedigger Bracewell vs. Andre Adams' sort of antipathy.

that's rank. i don't rate jeets but that's rank.

While this is true, partly as a result of providing wicket-keeping cover against the unlikely event that Watling injures himself in the 48 hours prior to a test, we are eschewing fast-bowling cover - a far far greater risk.

Personally I could accept the low risk of a last-minute Watling injury and the not-ideal solution of scrambling Latham into the role, with Fulton/Rutherford coming in to cover him as opener. Or, just don't waste a spot on Fulton/Rutherford and send Ronchi as batting reserve (they're clearly thinking of him as there-or-there-abouts as next best middle-order batting option, and as much as it's galling to admit it he probably is). Instead we have both solutions and only Neesham as fast-bowling reserve.

this

I suspect that the reason why they're eschewing fast bowling cover is because they (ridiculously) believe that a 2-seamer 2-spinner bowling attack is the best way to go, with Wagner left in reserve. So by the selector's thinking, they already have a spare seamer.

*sigh* it's probably this

Ronchi was picked as a back up keeper and reserve middle order bat.

Phlegm to taste it.

they're wrong.

 

[Flem274*]

congrats to mark craig. he's nice to watch so even though he's a real bolter i hope he does well if he plays. we don't have many offies who tailor themselves towards FC rather than limited overs darting so players like him are needed.

 

[Dan]

They don't have a spare spinner in that case though!

Williamson. Turns the ball away from the left-hander, most successful post-Vettori NZ spinner, probably about as useful as Craig would be, plus lets you play an extra quick.

 

[Kippax]

Williamson. Turns the ball away from the left-hander, most successful post-Vettori NZ spinner, probably about as useful as Craig would be, plus lets you play an extra quick.

I remember wondering if KW's hand is possibly too small to impart any threatening revs on the Duke, as you can see here -

http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/7bcf9c97-6cf6-4b22-a5cb-0491f553617a/2_076_02.mp4
http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/7bcf9c97-6cf6-4b22-a5cb-0491f553617a/2_128_05.mp4

 

[Kippax]

Jewel - Hands - YouTube

 

[Athlai]

They may be wrong.... but they still did it!

I'm pretty sure that was my entire argument. I hope Ronchi doesn't play personally.

 

[Kippax]

Jeets out for 74 I see.

 

[Prince EWS]

Williamson. Turns the ball away from the left-hander, most successful post-Vettori NZ spinner, probably about as useful as Craig would be, plus lets you play an extra quick.

Which completely circumvents my point about "they didn't pick a reserve quick because they plan on playing two spinners" not really working unless they picked an extra spinner (which they didn't) or unless you think they plan on picking two spinners and would replace one of them with a batsman if one was injured (which I highly doubt).

 

[African Monkey]

Jewel - Hands - YouTube

What a beautiful song!

 

[hendrix]

I suppose what Hesson is saying with these selections is that he doesn't think New Zealand can become a truly dominant test team without developing players specialised to all conditions. That's his commitment, and he's sticking to it.
He's looking at the England example where they won a series in India with Panesar and Swann. Those guys are no Muralis, but with runs on the board and helpful conditions, they were able to dominate.
Similarly, by selecting Ronchi, he's saying to the likes of Latham "We need good opening batsmen, that is our first priority".
By not selecting a backup pace bowler, he's telling Neesham "We need you to become a better bowler. We already have Corey Anderson, go out and make yourself capable as a 3rd seamer".

That's kinda admirable in a sense, but I'm not sure if it's entirely true. South Africa became the number one side in the world without even a mediocre spinner.

 

[straw man]

I just don't like the reserves - SteveNZ's description as underwhelming sums it up. That said even though I don't agree with the selections;
- I can accept that they want to pick a second spinner in the squad and that we might target Craig to become a Nathan Lyon like bowler (though it would be extremely foolish to play both him and Sodhi here).
- I can accept that our reserve batsman in Guptill/Brownlie/Rutherford/Fulton/Ronchi/NewGuy was always going to be a bit mediocre
- I can accept that Neesham demands a place in the 15, even though he's contributing to the awkwardness of selections here as who is he really a reserve for? Wagner maybe, Anderson at a stretch. No-one else.

However I just cannot accept a second reserve batsman in place of a fast bowling reserve. It would be bad in any circumstances if Southee or Boult went down with injury, but with this squad it would be disastrous.

Reckon the selectors were a bit hamstrung by the fast bowling stocks. Henry and Bracewell not available for various reasons, which really left them with picking either Gillespie or Bennett. I'd suggest neither of those guys are the sort of bowler they'd wanna pick if Southee or Boult fell over in warm ups, so they're better just taking Neesham and (probably) playing 2 spinners if they lose one of the quicks.

Especially disagree with the above - we know Gillespie would do a reasonable job if called upon and Bennett probably would too. As fast bowlers right now they are both >> Neesham and also >> random spinner.

 

[straw man]

A 6 ball duck - not the most glorious start to the Championship for KW. Also, Jeets off the mark for Warks.

Jeets out for 74 I see.

Now for Williamson to take a five-fer and complete the circle.

 

[Bahnz]

Patel in a spin over decision to miss Caps tour | Stuff.co.nz

Coach Mike Hesson said an offspinner was mandatory against an array of West Indies left-handers. He understood Patel's decision, then had to move on quickly.

If conditions were as dry and spin-friendly as expected, they would play both Sodhi and Craig with two frontline pacemen and allrounder Corey Anderson.

 

[Prince EWS]

I can't wait for the rage on here when they decide, after the decision to pick two spinners, that Wagner should play ahead of Boult.

Craig and Sodhi over Boult. Ahh, there would be a revolt.

 

[Flem274*]

yeah was about to post craig was likely to play. hesson is happy to pick the player he wants rather than stick to conventional selection wisdom. he elevated anderson because he wanted an allrounder and brought neesham into the fold when anderson was in doubt.

craig is such a hesson player. "if we play two spinners, one must bat". well now we have two FC number eights and southee in the tail. if a pig flies and southee is demoted to 10 we have a h4x tail and that was always going to be hard for hesson to resist.

i know pews is trolling but i reckon wagner's old ball bowling and ability to bowl long spells might see him closer to being the retained left armer than the rest of us would like.

brownlie and tastle are toast.

 

[hendrix]

However I just cannot accept a second reserve batsman in place of a fast bowling reserve. It would be bad in any circumstances if Southee or Boult went down with injury, but with this squad it would be disastrous.

Especially disagree with the above - we know Gillespie would do a reasonable job if called upon and Bennett probably would too. As fast bowlers right now they are both >> Neesham and also >> random spinner.

Yeah, this is the real issue. Fulton/Rutherford/Ronchi over Gillespie/Bennett is a bad move. In a pinch, either of McCullum or Watling could be called upon to open the batting. But there's none capable of replacing Boult, Southee or Wagner.

It puts huge pressure on Neesham to up his bowling. He has the raw talent but he's miles away from being an opening bowler or even third seamer.

Hesson clearly thinks that developing Neesham as a bowler is a good move for NZC, and it's hard to disagree with that, but it's possible that it blunts out short term goals here. Even if he does develop to be a very good third seamer, is he ever likely to be better than Henry? Isn't it just as likely that guys like Milne or Duffy might overtake him?