View Poll Results: Please Vote for the 3 Strongest Teams

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  • CHASINGTHEDONs XI

    4 23.53%
  • FREDFERTANGs XI

    8 47.06%
  • KYEARs XI

    6 35.29%
  • WATSONs XI

    12 70.59%
  • MORGIEBs XI

    3 17.65%
  • BLAKUS' XI

    9 52.94%
  • CAMO999 XI

    9 52.94%
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Thread: 'GROUP B' - The Best of Each Decade Birthday Draft. VOTING THREAD

  1. #1
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    'GROUP B' - The Best of Each Decade Birthday Draft. VOTING THREAD

    ATG Test Match Championship: ‘GROUP B’

    The Scenario

    Each contestent has rented a Time Machine, gone back in time, and assembled their own ATG team as listed below. Each player in the team is in the peak form of their career, and is injury free.

    Since the Test Match Championship will be played in modern conditions using modern equipment, the respective teams have been assembled in advance, and have played a full season in local competitions. ‘Old Timers’ have remarked that they, “thoroughly enjoyed the experience”, and that playing in 21st century conditions with excellent equipment was a “revelation”.

    The Test Match Championship is comprised of Home and Away fixtures between each of the seven teams. The strongest team with the most wins in ‘GROUP B’ will advance to the Grand Final against the winner of ‘GROUP A’.


    Voting Rules

    Please vote for the 3 strongest teams. That is, the 3 teams that you think are the most likely to win the most matches in the ATG Test Match Championship, Group Stage. As usual for Test Match cricket, Wins = 1 point, and Draws/Losses = 0

    Voting will be stopped and counted at 8:00 pm Sydney Time, THURSDAY. Votes after that time will be discounted. If there is a tie then voting will continue for a further 24 hours to break the deadlock.

    Please remember to vote for 3 ‘GROUP A’ teams when you have finished voting for your 3 ‘GROUP B’ teams.

    As stated before, the winner of ‘GROUP B’ will advance to the Grand Final against the winner of ‘GROUP A’.


    CHASINGTHEDONs XI
    Home Venue: Riverside Ground
    01. Graham Gooch
    02. Graeme Smith
    03. Clem Hill
    04. Peter May*
    05. Martin Crowe
    06. Aubrey Faulkner
    07. Adam Gilchrist+
    08. Jack Gregory
    09. Hedley Verity
    10. Alec Bedser
    11. Brian Statham
    12th Tony Greig


    FREDFERTANGs XI
    Home Venue: Old Trafford Cricket Ground
    01. Victor Trumper
    02. Virender Sehwag
    03. Ted Dexter*
    04. Brian Lara
    05. Kevin Pietersen
    06. Martin Donnelly
    07. Alan Knott+
    08. Harold Larwood
    09. Johnny Wardle
    10. Ted McDonald
    11. Joel Garner
    12th Reggie Spooner


    KYEARs XI
    Home Venue: Kensington Oval
    01. Bruce Mitchell
    02. Vijay Merchant
    03. Viv Richards*
    04. Inzamam-ul-Haq
    05. AB De Villiers+
    06. Stanley Jackson
    07. Roy Kilner
    08. Jim Laker
    09. Dennis Lillee
    10. Wes Hall
    11. Ian Bishop
    12th. Tip Snooke


    WATSONs XI
    Home Venue: Sydney Cricket Ground
    01. Matthew Hayden
    02. Stewie Dempster
    03. Neil Harvey
    04. Greg Chappell
    05. Lindsay Hassett
    06. Warwick Armstrong*
    07. Ian Healy+
    08. Richard Hadlee
    09. Dale Steyn
    10. Arthur Mailey
    11. Neil Adcock
    12th Percy Fender


    MORGIEBs XI
    Home Venue: Sydney Cricket Ground
    01. Sunil Gavaskar
    02. Bill Woodfull
    03. David Boon
    04. Cyril Washbrook
    05. Allan Border*
    06. Monty Noble
    07. John Waite+
    08. Stuart Broad
    09. Fazal Mahmood
    10, Bill O'Reilly
    11. Glenn McGrath
    12th Frank Foster


    BLAKUS' XI
    Home Venue: Sydney Cricket Ground
    01. Gordon Greenidge
    02. Bob Simpson*
    03. Zaheer Abbas
    04. Walter Hammond
    05. Dudley Nourse
    06. Phil Mead
    07. Shaun Pollock
    08. Bert Oldfield+
    09. Alan Davidson
    10. Bobby Peel
    11. Allan Donald
    12th. Cheteshwar Pujara


    CAMO999s XI
    Home Venue: Melbourne Cricket Ground
    01. Jack Hobbs
    02. WGGrace
    03. Virat Kohli
    04. Javed Miandad
    05. Bill Ponsford
    06. Clive Lloyd*
    07. Richie Benaud
    08. Don Tallon+
    09. Wasim Akram
    10. Shane Bond
    11. Bill Johnston
    12th. Herman Griffith


    As a reminder, the Op was.......

    The Best of Each Decade Birthday Draft

    The idea is to select 12 players, one from each decade. To stop arguments about whether Hobbs was a pre-War batsman, or a batsman from the 1920s, we'll be going by each player's Birthday. The cut-off Birthday dates for each decade are as follows;

    >=1980s - After 31/12/1979
    1970s - 01/01/1970 to 31/12/1979
    1960s - 01/01/1960 to 31/12/1969
    1950s - 01/01/1950 to 31/12/1959
    1940s - 01/01/1940 to 31/12/1949
    1930s - 01/01/1930 to 31/12/1939
    1920s - 01/01/1920 to 31/12/1929
    1910s - 01/01/1910 to 31/12/1919
    1900s - 01/01/1900 to 31/12/1909
    1890s - 01/01/1890 to 31/12/1899
    1880s - 01/01/1880 to 31/12/1889
    <=1870s - Before 01/01/1880

    An example of a team, should you be so lucky, would be;

    01. Jack Hobbs (1882) - 1880s
    02. Herbert Sutcliffe (1894) - 1890s
    03. Walter Hammond (1903) - 1900s
    04. Greg Chappell (1948) - 1940s
    05. Stan McCabe (1910) - 1910s
    06. Garry Sobers (1936) - 1930s
    07. Adam Gilchrist (1971) - 1970s
    08. Malcolm Marshall (1958) - 1950s
    09. Hugh Trumble (1867) <=1870s
    10. Allan Donald (1966) - 1960s
    11. Dale Steyn (1983) - >=1980s
    12th. Arthur Morris (1922) -1920s

    Each participant has 12 hours to pick their player for the Round. The odd numbered Rounds will be randomised, and the corresponding even Rounds will be in reverse order.

    If a participant misses 2 consecutive Rounds then the next participant in the order can make their pick straight away without waiting the 12 hours. If a participant misses 3 consecutive Rounds then they will be assumed to be unavailable and cannot return to the game.

    As usual, NO Bradman.

    Feel free to join in. Anyone one play, but it's first come first served, so be quick. It would be nice to get 10 to 14 participants.

    (If you don't think that the cut-offs for each decade are quite right then please let me know before we start)

    Cheers - Watson
    Last edited by watson; 29-03-2014 at 07:10 PM.
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  2. #2
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Again a toughie. Went Blakus, Camo and Watson.
    5-0

    RIP Craig Walsh (Craig) 1985-2012

    Proudly supporting the #2 cricketer of all time.

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Each player in the team is in the peak form of their career, and is injury free.

    Since the Test Match Championship will be played in modern conditions using modern equipment...
    well that sucks

    significantly changes the value of each player and was never mentioned as voting criteria while drafting

    I'm going to use this as flavour for the OP only and vote how I usually do, hopefully others will as well
    'It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away.'

  4. #4
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    well that sucks

    significantly changes the value of each player and was never mentioned as voting criteria while drafting

    I'm going to use this as flavour for the OP only and vote how I usually do, hopefully others will as well
    Don't want to get into a protracted esoteric debate, but if WG Grace (for example) is about to front up to Allan Donald then why would he use a crappy old bat (in relative terms), and have no modern padding or protection? After all, we are assuming the context of a 'real' Test Match Championship.

    Indeed, if we don't assume a context like a 'real' Test Match Championship played at some point in time, like 2014, then we are confronted with a simple 'logical impossibility' - a Test match strip cannot be both from the 1880s and the 2010s similtaneously. It must be one or the other. In other words, WG Grace cannot play a game of cricket in the 1880s, and Allan Donald play a game of cricket in the 1990s at the same time. A choice of some kind needs to made.

    Personally, I think it devalues the ATG player more to exist in a team with no context at all, and consequently have nothing to 'do' other than help make up the numbers in a simple list - even if the 'doing' only exists within the realms of fantasy.

    That's why I also added the following paragraph;

    Since the Test Match Championship will be played in modern conditions using modern equipment, the respective teams have been assembled in advance, and have played a full season in local competitions. ‘Old Timers’ have remarked that they, “thoroughly enjoyed the experience”, and that playing in 21st century conditions with excellent equipment was a “revelation”.
    But I guess, fantasy is not according to everyones taste because we each have our different temperments. I thoroughly enjoy the SciFi series 'Dr Who', and buy into all its weird premises. But at the same time other people think that it's a waste of time and all very stupid. Why would anyone want to suspend reality and belief that Time Travel inside a Police Call Box is 'real' they say?

    Howe, for the sake of this Draft, I politely suggest that you think like a child again
    Last edited by watson; 30-03-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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  5. #5
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    well that sucks

    significantly changes the value of each player and was never mentioned as voting criteria while drafting

    I'm going to use this as flavour for the OP only and vote how I usually do, hopefully others will as well
    I'm not sure why that would change anything?
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Don't want to get into a protracted esoteric debate, but if WG Grace (for example) is about to front up to Allan Donald then why would he use a crappy old bat (in relative terms), and have no modern padding or protection? After all, we are assuming the context of a 'real' Test Match Championship.

    Indeed, if we don't assume a context like a 'real' Test Match Championship played at some point in time, like 2014, then we are confronted with a simple 'logical impossibility' - a Test match strip cannot be both from the 1880s and the 2010s similtaneously. It must be one or the other. In other words, WG Grace cannot play a game of cricket in the 1880s, and Allan Donald play a game of cricket in the 1990s at the same time. A choice of some kind needs to made.

    Personally, I think it devalues the ATG player more to exist in a team with no context at all, and consequently have nothing to 'do' other than help make up the numbers in a simple list - even if the 'doing' only exists within the realms of fantasy.

    That's why I also added the following paragraph;



    But I guess, fantasy is not according to everyones taste because we each have our different temperments. I thoroughly enjoy the SciFi series 'Dr Who', and buy into all its weird premises. But at the same time other people think that it's a waste of time and all very stupid. Why would anyone want to suspend reality and belief that Time Travel inside a Police Call Box is 'real' they say?

    Howe, for the sake of this Draft, I politely suggest that you become a child again
    For the bolded - whether or not he could face Donald was never part of what WG set out to do and wasn't what made him a special player. So I'm not going to take it into account because it's nothing to do with how good he was.

    As for the rest, what I mean isn't to insist on you not imagining a game between these sides if that's what you want. I'm just prickly about being told circumstances for voting are specific, rather than allowing people the criteria that they would normally use, after we've already played the draft.

  7. #7
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    For the bolded - whether or not he could face Donald was never part of what WG set out to do and wasn't what made him a special player. So I'm not going to take it into account because it's nothing to do with how good he was.

    As for the rest, what I mean isn't to insist on you not imagining a game between these sides if that's what you want. I'm just prickly about being told circumstances for voting are specific, rather than allowing people the criteria that they would normally use, after we've already played the draft.
    Oh I see where you are coming from now. Yes, I should have made the Scenario part of the OP from the outset as that would have been more consistent. However, I don't think that the impact of the Scenario is as dramatic as you assume as people will still gravitate toward their favourite players, and favourite style of team, irrespective of what I write. As they say, "a champion in one era would still be a champion in another era", and everyone knows who their champions are.

    Also, I had a lot of fun creating and writing the scenario, and didn't think that it would be deal other than peoples imaginations would be stirred.

  8. #8
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    I'm all for voting on the basis of the implicit assumption that Grace would have the advantage of modern equipment and training methods, and would not have his short Test career held against him. But the "players at their peak" bit doesn't sit well with me. If I were part of the draft, I'd have selected players a lot differently if I'd have known that beforehand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    If GI 'Best Poster On The Forum' Joe says it then it must be true.
    Athlai doesn't lie. And he doesn't do sarcasm either, so you know it's true!

  9. #9
    International Vice-Captain OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Would pay top dollar to watch fredfertang's XI in action.
    fredfertang likes this.

  10. #10
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    But how else do we select players. No one selects VI thinking you are getting his 1991 version you pick players at their peaks. Marshall from '83 to '84 etc.

  11. #11
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    But how else do we select players. No one selects VI thinking you are getting his 1991 version you pick players at their peaks. Marshall from '83 to '84 etc.
    Yes, a player cannot be both 25 years old, and 37 years old at exactly the same time. He has to be something when part of a team, and his peak is the obvious and preferred something.

    Anyway, I don't want to detract any further from what has been a really fun Draft. But I do think that we have an interesting topic for a new separate thread.
    Last edited by watson; 30-03-2014 at 01:51 PM.

  12. #12
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Blackus' team is superb. The attack of Donald-Pollock-Davidson-Peel-Hammond-Simpson has excellent variety and is a definite standout. What's more, it is given an extra edge by the brilliance of Oldfield. The opening partnership of Greenidge and Simo is to die for, and the middle order of Hammond-Nourse-Mead is very solid. Abbas did have his problems against the West Indian pacers of his time, but then again, most batsman did. Abbas is still class. An exceptional team from beginning to end.

    Not sure about the two remaining choices as this Group, like the other one, is high quality and very tight. Something to ponder during the rest of the day.......
    Last edited by watson; 30-03-2014 at 02:28 PM.

  13. #13
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    But how else do we select players. No one selects VI thinking you are getting his 1991 version you pick players at their peaks. Marshall from '83 to '84 etc.
    I look at their overall career. If you're selecting them with their peak in mind, then it opens up the debate of what constitutes a peak. When I pick Viv, I pick him keeping in mind that he could be sublime in one game and his '91 version in the next.
    Last edited by G.I.Joe; 30-03-2014 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #14
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    I look at their overall career. If you're selecting them with their peak in mind, then it opens up the debate of what constitutes a peak. When I pick Viv, I pick him keeping in mind that he could be sublime in one game and his '91 version in the next.
    The point at which the player reached their highest ICC rating is as good as any definition of peak that I've seen. Importantly, the algorithm used to calculate the 'peak rating' takes into account their entire career to that point.

    Incidently, according to the ICC, Viv Richards reached his career 'peak rating' during 1981.

    http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/p...tting/?id=1682

    Also, you rationale means that Ian Botham should never be picked as the odds of him being rotund and underpar are too great. Realistically, from 1985 to 1992 he was a shadow of his former self.

    I really must start a new thread, even though the discussion thus far has been really facinating and enjoyable!
    Last edited by watson; 30-03-2014 at 02:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    Would pay top dollar to watch fredfertang's XI in action.
    Precisely what I set out to achieve

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