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Scathing article by Vaughan on Trott

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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

Gave an interview to SKY

Trott shouldn't be anywhere near the English team for an extended period as he is either in complete denial as to his mental condition or he simply did a runner when the going got tough
Jeez that's not great from Trotty.

For the record, this is why longevity is so important and should be valued so highly. Players like Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid who just kept going series after series playing at the highest level against the best bowlers for 15-20 years are ****ing titans of the game. Same with bowlers like McGrath, Murali, Warne who did it from the bowling front for so many years too. There are obviously other players too who you can put in this category.

The ability to front up and fight through ****ty form, heavy media scrutiny and serious sledging on the field and get through it year after year is just so underrated on here.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

Gave an interview to SKY

Trott shouldn't be anywhere near the English team for an extended period as he is either in complete denial as to his mental condition or he simply did a runner when the going got tough
Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.

Not to mention he's given the impression of talking about a return to England like it's a given right. Technically he was all over the show and if not for leaving, he would have been dropped. Fair to say no one has put their hand up since but #3 for England is not his god-given right.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.
I agree. Comments on both The Telegraph and Sydney Morning Herald where this article was posted suggest this is correct. A lot of "harden up" being said.

The next time we have a Trescothick scenario for a current player this will be the first thing people say.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Jeez that's not great from Trotty.

For the record, this is why longevity is so important and should be valued so highly. Players like Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid who just kept going series after series playing at the highest level against the best bowlers for 15-20 years are ****ing titans of the game. Same with bowlers like McGrath, Murali, Warne who did it from the bowling front for so many years too. There are obviously other players too who you can put in this category.

The ability to front up and fight through ****ty form, heavy media scrutiny and serious sledging on the field and get through it year after year is just so underrated on here.
Nothing has even been more predictable than me liking this post.
 

watson

Banned
Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.

Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

Chappell opted out of the 1981 Ashes tour because of "burnout". He cited 'family and business reasons' at the time, but really, it was obvious to all after the 'Underarm Incident' that he had more than a gut-full of International cricket.

The point being, not every cricketer can be like Tendulkar, Kallis, or Dravid. Neither should they be, as this would make the sport predictably monochrome. Trott should have the support of his team mates like Chappell, and be able to make a come back in his own good time like Chappell. That way, the England team will benefit in the longer term just like the Australian team did. Chappell's leadership in the 1982/83 Ashes series was inspired, and his batting excellent (Ave = 48.63) considering the lay-off. His last 5 Tests against Pakistan in 1983/84 yielded 364 runs at 72.80.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Ill-advised would be an understatement in terms of that interview. That's done himself, and future cricketers/sportsmen with real depression symptoms, a massive disservice. This only gives the 'harden up' crowd a stronger voice.

Not to mention he's given the impression of talking about a return to England like it's a given right. Technically he was all over the show and if not for leaving, he would have been dropped. Fair to say no one has put their hand up since but #3 for England is not his god-given right.
AWTA. Who ever is on his management team and sent him into the interview with those lines of explanation need sacking immediately. Disgraceful rhetoric..........and I'm with Vaughan, we've all been conned. .
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.

Jonathan Trott: I wasn't suffering from depression, I was just burnt out - Telegraph

Chappell opted out of the 1981 Ashes tour because of "burnout". He cited 'family and business reasons' at the time, but really, it was obvious to all after the 'Underarm Incident' that he had more than a gut-full of International cricket.

The point being, not every cricketer can be like Tendulkar, Kallis, or Dravid. Neither should they be, as this would make the sport predictably monochrome. Trott should have the support of his team mates like Chappell, and be able to make a come back in his own good time like Chappell. That way, the England team will benefit in the longer term just like the Australian team did. Chappell's leadership in the 1982/83 Ashes series was inspired, and his batting excellent (Ave = 48.63) considering the lay-off. His last 5 Tests against Pakistan in 1983/84 yielded 364 runs at 72.80.
There is absolutely a massive, massive difference between being mentally tired and depression. I'm sure they've been confused a lot throughout history but there's a massive difference.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Is there a discernable difference between Depression and "burnout"? I don't think that there is - 'Same dog different leg' as they say.
Yes. I'm not an expert, and nor are you, but my best explanation/theory would be that burnout is situational, and depression is not.

I'm not prepared to say Trott shouldn't have the support of his team-mates - if he can look them in the eye and truly say he left the tour feeling mentally overwhelmed. He doesn't have to put a label on where his head was or anything else...it should be enough to say guys, I couldn't go on.

As we stand here today, he probably needs to say I made some flippant remarks that were ill-advised, I intend to work hard to regain my England spot, feel I am in a better mental state to do so and will commit to proving it for Warwickshire.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yes. I'm not an expert, and nor are you, but my best explanation/theory would be that burnout is situational, and depression is not.
Depression can definitely be triggered or worsened by situational aspects. It's hard to quantify exactly but having experienced both first hand, I think the best I can do is say that depression is a mental illness and burnout is a state of mind. I suppose you're right to an extent about depression not being situational in that a depression suffer always 'has' the illness even if it's being managed well enough to not be having an effect at times, whereas burnout legitimately just comes and goes away with rest.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
There is absolutely a massive, massive difference between being mentally tired and depression. I'm sure they've been confused a lot throughout history but there's a massive difference.
However, one will greatly exacerbate the other. The first steps when dealing with mental illness are the basics. Sleep well, do the things you love/enjoy, drink water, exercise. Tiredness, poor diet, stress and pressure and being sedentary increase the severity of depression.

I'm in no place to say, but perhaps Trott doesn't want to admit to the world what's actually going on, or maybe he's trying to retract something that's true, but he wishes that he hadn't said. Who knows? It's all speculation. One thing I do know is that we don't need everyone piping in with their opinion (Vaughan has become a really unlikeable sniper in the media). I wish Trott all the best with whatever he is dealing with.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
And, even if it is "burnout", why does it change anything. As a society, what is the big deal with Jonathon Trott needing a sabbatical from his work?
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
You guys are basically talking about the difference between acute depression and chronic depression. People in general 'get' the former way more than the latter. i.e. "Oh they were in a car accident? Damn, poor bastard" vs "Oh he's been depressed for four years? HTFU!"
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Depression can definitely be triggered or worsened by situational aspects. It's hard to quantify exactly but having experienced both first hand, I think the best I can do is say that depression is a mental illness and burnout is a state of mind. I suppose you're right to an extent about depression not being situational in that a depression suffer always 'has' the illness even if it's being managed well enough to not be having an effect at times, whereas burnout legitimately just comes and goes away with rest.
Absolutely, it stands to reason that depression would be harder felt in a stressful/adverse environment. I guess what I was trying to say is that burnout is defined as situational, whereas depression does not have to be. I am only making my own best description, as thankfully I haven't lived through it and those who have, I truly feel for.

Monk, absolutely there is nothing wrong with a so-called sabbatical. My last post served to say exactly that, except for the fact he's now muddied the water by seemingly trivialising his own experience, and probably let a few people down in the process.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Absolutely, it stands to reason that depression would be harder felt in a stressful/adverse environment. I guess what I was trying to say is that burnout is defined as situational, whereas depression does not have to be. I am only making my own best description, as thankfully I haven't lived through it and those who have, I truly feel for.

Monk, absolutely there is nothing wrong with a so-called sabbatical. My last post served to say exactly that, except for the fact he's now muddied the water by seemingly trivialising his own experience, and probably let a few people down in the process.
Just reckon we shouldn't be quick to judge from a distance, that's all. The real story is pretty inconsequential to anyone anyway. Last thing he needs is someone like Vaughan having a crack from the media.
 

OverratedSanity

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Horrible from Trott. I don't really care whether he's in denial about his condition or whether he actually is only burnt out as he Saud but this one line made me angry: " People come up to you and say, 'it's good to see you're out and about' and I'm like, 'I'm not crazy I was just burnt out!"
Equating 'crazy' with people suffering from depression is incredibly ignorant of him
 

watson

Banned
It seems Swann and Trott both abandoned ship. I'd be mighty pissed if I were their Ashes teammates.
Both Swann and Trott should NOT have gone on the tour if they knew they weren't up to it prior to leaving as piking out half-way is clearly upsetting to the team.

However, that implies, and I would hazard a guess, that the England management weren't listening, or didn't want to listen to their players - "just buck-up and get on the god damned plane".

Something appeared to be patholgically wrong at the managament level during the whole Ashes tour.
 

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