Last two years - Spinners' downturn in ODIs?

[NasserFan207]

Its just the natural progression of sport. One tactic dominates for a while, then players/coaches work out how to deal with it, and it falls out of fashion. Then something else takes its place.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Nothing at all to do with two new balls. An argument could be made that the two new balls curtails reverse at the end of an innings but it really has no real noticeable different to spinners. The two new ball rule is great, it just doesn't work perfectly for the sub continent because the ball is easier to play against when it's new due to the slow pitches, which is reversed everywhere else in the world.

The hardest thing going against all bowlers is the one less fielder allowed outside the circle. You've gone from being able to protect pretty much 85% of the boundary to now only being about to protect around 50% of it.

Softer balls can provide a bit of protection, harder to get off the square and you can limit the regions to score more, especially behind the wicket.

 

[benchmark00]

Softer balls can provide a bit of protection, harder to get off the square and you can limit the regions to score more, especially behind the wicket.

I know that, and I was going to include that into the post however once you weigh up that with the benefits spin bowlers get with the 'skid' through factor it is balanced out to even or close enough to.

 

[karan316]

I know that, and I was going to include that into the post however once you weigh up that with the benefits spin bowlers get with the 'skid' through factor it is balanced out to even or close enough to.

I think any spin bowler would prefer to bowl with an older ball and get a good amount of turn rather than a newer ball.

 

[benchmark00]

You'd be surprised.

 

[Arjun]

Two new balls are likely to be a factor, but we've seen Ajmal, Abdur Razzak and Tredwell doing well despite it. Spinners, on the whole, are not really being flexible with the rule.

That the restrictions on the number of fielders in outer areas is a problem is another piece of evidence that spinners have now become a lot more defensive, not just this season, but over the whole decade. What happened to spinners who attacked the batting and had alert, speedy catching fielders helping them?

True, most spinners bowling in this period are of poor quality. Many of them are typical ODI spinners, who bowl slow and straight, without much turn. The combination of two new balls and fielding restrictions have hampered them a great deal. I wouldn't call these two rules as negative- at least they eliminate mediocre elements of the game. However, the way captains use their spinners is also important. Many captains use spinners as restrictive bowlers, and attack with the pacers. You don't see much of what you saw of Warne and Murali in their best days. While most mediocre spinners have struggled in tougher conditions, captains have not handled some spinners properly.

Another point to note is that there's one spinner per side across most teams.

 

[NasserFan207]

Batsmen are more powerful/have better bats too, means spinners are far more likely to be hit out the park. How many times do you see mistimed lofted shots which used to get caught on the boundary and now sail into the first row.

 

[smash84]

Another point to note is that there's one spinner per side across most teams.

Pak suffering from over kill though. Afridi, Ajmal, Hafeez. At least one of Afridi or Hafeez shouldn't be in the side.

 

[Maximas]

I think any spin bowler would prefer to bowl with an older ball and get a good amount of turn rather than a newer ball.

You get more variation out of a newer ball, if you hit the seam you get exaggerated turn/bounce while if you hit a shiny point you get more skid, the problem is that it's a little harder to grip and get revs on (at least I find) and that it comes off the bat a bit harder

 

[Immenso]

I blame Nathan McCullum.

Distorting global stats since 2012

 

[YorksLanka]

I think any spin bowler would prefer to bowl with an older ball and get a good amount of turn rather than a newer ball.

y..

i would agree personally, i would assume that it is harder to get slower "flight and loop" with a harder ball...

 

[karan316]

Exactly, the skid through factor works only for the ones who bowl a flatter trajectory.

 

[Furball]

So why have spinners been phenominally successful since day 1 in T20 if they can't bowl well with a new ball?

 

[Migara]

Exactly, the skid through factor works only for the ones who bowl a flatter trajectory.

Wrong. Ones who bow; flat would not get much spin any way. Sliding it off the shiny surface will only add a tad of pace. Take a bowler like Murali or Swann who gives it a rip. If they can grip it properly the delivery that hits the shine will go straight on without any change of action at all. The doosra and armball have little differences in action. There is no way batsman can read it, when bowler doesn't know what he's bowling.

 

[Prince EWS]

Exactly, the skid through factor works only for the ones who bowl a flatter trajectory.

I don't play a high standard of cricket but as someone who tosses it up, I actually quite enjoy getting a go with the new ball. You get a lot more bounce with the new ball which encourages tossing it up above the batsman's eyeline, and the little bit of extra zip you get off the surface with the new ball allows you to be a little slower through the air without worrying about the batsmen having too much time to sit back and adjust off the pitch. If you've got a Shoaib Malik style arm ball in which the seam actually points towards first and drifts away, then a new ball can help with that too.

It doesn't really help you dry up the runs as there's more pace on the ball but, as with the fast bowlers really, it can really aid in a spinner's potency if he uses it right.

 

[Shri]

Just realized I have never been given the new ball ever as a spinner. Would love to try a top spinner with a new ball sometime.

 

[Contra]

So why have spinners been phenominally successful since day 1 in T20 if they can't bowl well with a new ball?

Might have to do with the fact that you are constantly required to score in T20's off pretty much every over, or at least that was the case during the early years of T20. In ODIs you can still take your time during the middle overs instead of trying to force the rate and trying to hit out.

 

[CricAddict]

Yeah, atleast offspinners are doing ok. But we are yet to see a good legspinner after Warne and Kumble.

During the under-19 world cup, I saw a legspinner from Pakistan bowling very well, couldn't recollect his name. Hope he brings leg-spin back on the cricketing map.

 

[karan316]

I think If the new ball was so beneficial for the spinners, most teams, who have had good spinners(and crap pace bowlers) in the past would have used them more often with the newer ball. We haven't seen many spinners being used that way regularly.

 

[benchmark00]

I think If the new ball was so beneficial for the spinners, most teams, who have had good spinners(and crap pace bowlers) in the past would have used them more often with the newer ball. We haven't seen many spinners being used that way regularly.

Reckon that just might be because pace bowlers are better with the new ball than the old ball.

Just spit balling here...