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Thread: Should Dhoni still captain India?

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    His well touted ego, arrogance and attitude issues? God, do you even read about cricket before posting?
    I'd ask you that exact question.

    If you want to question the political agendas of Indian cricket then I don't know why you'd use it to question Virat Kohli as a captain option over Dhoni. The number of Chennai players inexplicably being picked under Dhoni has been a point of contention for a couple of years at least, and that's not even to mention the fact that he was captain of a team that's owned by the BCCI president, and which has been involved in spot fixing under said president's own son, also under Dhoni's captaincy. Note also that Dhoni also publicly defended the spot fixer, who's guilty charge has been subsequently proven.

    Now personally I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Dhoni here, because I like him and I'd really hate for him to actually be involved in any of that stuff, but I can't believe that you're going to question the political agendas of a young player who's never had even a shadow of speculation in regards to any untoward activities while the current incumbent is facing heavy, intense media focus for those exact issues.

  2. #17
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    Let's see.

    Under Dhoni, India went from a fractured team of individual brilliance who were capable of winning at home and being inconsistent away from home into a unit that was credible away from home and rose to the top of the rankings. Players and coaches alike said that he plays in a very selfless way for his side and simply seeks to select guys that are either proven for him or guys that are putting big numbers in domestic. The criticism on Dhoni is that he has too much faith in a Sharma type of player - but then with Sharma, he knows what he'll get and can plan accordingly, Sharma also was the dominant Indian bowler in NZ.

    The reason India are currently in a slide is pretty simple - they went from a team that had six world class batsmen, a credible seam bowling attack and a capable spin bowler to a side of guys who are seeking to prove themselves. You try lose Laxman, Sehwag ( form ), Dravid, Tendulkar, Gambhir ( form ), Harbhajan ( form ) and at the same time see the decline of Zaheer Khan. He's got a team of guys that aren't used to away conditions and haven't built records over 10 years of "combat"

    As for Kohli, ask any Indian cricket fan about his attitude and his issues with other players in the team that don't cede to him and treat him like he's a God. Then go and read about the clashes and struggles he had in junior cricket with his team and coaching staff.

  3. #18
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Just led his team to under 19 World Cup glory, no biggie.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  4. #19
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Hey Jono,

    I have to ask you something:

    How about Kohli's attitude and his issues with other players in the team that don't cede to him and treat him like he's a God?

    Regards,
    Bench Mark Zero-Zero
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.


  5. #20
    International Vice-Captain Contra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    Let's see.

    Under Dhoni, India went from a fractured team of individual brilliance who were capable of winning at home and being inconsistent away from home into a unit that was credible away from home and rose to the top of the rankings. Players and coaches alike said that he plays in a very selfless way for his side and simply seeks to select guys that are either proven for him or guys that are putting big numbers in domestic. The criticism on Dhoni is that he has too much faith in a Sharma type of player - but then with Sharma, he knows what he'll get and can plan accordingly, Sharma also was the dominant Indian bowler in NZ.

    The reason India are currently in a slide is pretty simple - they went from a team that had six world class batsmen, a credible seam bowling attack and a capable spin bowler to a side of guys who are seeking to prove themselves. You try lose Laxman, Sehwag ( form ), Dravid, Tendulkar, Gambhir ( form ), Harbhajan ( form ) and at the same time see the decline of Zaheer Khan. He's got a team of guys that aren't used to away conditions and haven't built records over 10 years of "combat"

    As for Kohli, ask any Indian cricket fan about his attitude and his issues with other players in the team that don't cede to him and treat him like he's a God. Then go and read about the clashes and struggles he had in junior cricket with his team and coaching staff.
    India are hardly on a slide, the slide happened when they lost 8-0 which included all those names you just mentioned.

    India have lost 2/4 test matches, on other days it would have read 2-1 or even 3-1 in India's favour. The problem here is the unpredictability of our bowlers, and IMO the lack of balance in our bowling attack. At this point it's hard for Dhoni to defend or praise his bowlers because they've been hot and cold within the same test match, in one innings they blow away the opposition and then they let them off the hook with the next innings (or vice versa), there really isn't much Dhoni can do because he's probably just as confused as to how he hasn't won at least 2/4 of the tests played overseas recently as the average India fan is.

    If you want to criticize Dhoni the captain then you can go back to those ENG/AUS tours, not the recently concluded ones.

    As for the topic questions I feel he should get another shot at ENG/AUS, if he can win even one of those 2 series I'd be pretty content, however unlikely the chances are. Or at least India should continue competing the way they have so far. I'm sure Dhoni's gonna take a call on his future post 2015 WC in any case. Giving him this one year would be appropriate. I'm also a little worried that Kohli's form might fall if he becomes captain, I know he's tipped to be captain but the way he's playing atm I'd just let him worry about his game and nothing else.

  6. #21
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Hey Jono,

    I have to ask you something:

    How about Kohli's attitude and his issues with other players in the team that don't cede to him and treat him like he's a God?

    Regards,
    Bench Mark Zero-Zero
    Well I do fit the criteria of asking that question - I am an Indian cricket fan.

    As opposed to an Indian fan:

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  7. #22
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    Let's see.

    Under Dhoni, India went from a fractured team of individual brilliance who were capable of winning at home and being inconsistent away from home into a unit that was credible away from home and rose to the top of the rankings. Players and coaches alike said that he plays in a very selfless way for his side and simply seeks to select guys that are either proven for him or guys that are putting big numbers in domestic. The criticism on Dhoni is that he has too much faith in a Sharma type of player - but then with Sharma, he knows what he'll get and can plan accordingly, Sharma also was the dominant Indian bowler in NZ.
    No, he hasn't picked guys who're putting big numbers domestically. He hasn't gone for players like Pankaj Singh or Pandey. He hasn't selected the quality spinners like Ojha or Mishra. It took him at least a year too long to get Rahane in the team - and this was when scrubs like Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh were still playing - these are guys that have never set first class cricket alike with anywhere near the consistency that Rahane and Pujara have shown for a number of years.

    Ishant Sharma is proven. He's proven to be a crap bowler. The worst bowler in the history of the game to have played 50 tests, in fact. You can't say "Oh, I know what I'll get with Ishant" if knowing what you'll get is utterly crap, club standard bowling. Ishant taking wickets in NZ was the worst thing that could have happened for India.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    The reason India are currently in a slide is pretty simple - they went from a team that had six world class batsmen, a credible seam bowling attack and a capable spin bowler to a side of guys who are seeking to prove themselves. You try lose Laxman, Sehwag ( form ), Dravid, Tendulkar, Gambhir ( form ), Harbhajan ( form ) and at the same time see the decline of Zaheer Khan. He's got a team of guys that aren't used to away conditions and haven't built records over 10 years of "combat"
    Laxman (retirement), Sehwag (form), Tendulkar (retirement - but let's face it, form), Gambhir (form), Dravid (retirement, but also in pretty poor form), Harbhajan (form) is a much worse side than what they have now. Yes, that was once a godly lineup, but each of those players were very poor by the time they left the team. Tendulkar's was at least a year late, and each of those other guys were given very lenient ropes.

    Vijay, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane is a much better batting card now than those players were at the time they left the team.
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  8. #23
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    What is the selection panel system in India? i.e. who's a part of it?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Well I do fit the criteria of asking that question - I am an Indian cricket fan.

    As opposed to an Indian fan:

    How long after you hit the reply button did you realise you could get more out of the post and then edit that in?
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  10. #25
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Just led his team to under 19 World Cup glory, no biggie.
    And what? Individual brilliance at U19 is enough. You're not under the tactical scrutiny or awareness teams have and generally at that level, your best players are your captains because they're the ones who have been in the setup and squad the longest.

  11. #26
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    No, he hasn't picked guys who're putting big numbers domestically. He hasn't gone for players like Pankaj Singh or Pandey. He hasn't selected the quality spinners like Ojha or Mishra. It took him at least a year too long to get Rahane in the team - and this was when scrubs like Suresh Raina and Yuvraj Singh were still playing - these are guys that have never set first class cricket alike with anywhere near the consistency that Rahane and Pujara have shown for a number of years.

    Ishant Sharma is proven. He's proven to be a crap bowler. The worst bowler in the history of the game to have played 50 tests, in fact. You can't say "Oh, I know what I'll get with Ishant" if knowing what you'll get is utterly crap, club standard bowling. Ishant taking wickets in NZ was the worst thing that could have happened for India.

    Laxman (retirement), Sehwag (form), Tendulkar (retirement - but let's face it, form), Gambhir (form), Dravid (retirement, but also in pretty poor form), Harbhajan (form) is a much worse side than what they have now. Yes, that was once a godly lineup, but each of those players were very poor by the time they left the team. Tendulkar's was at least a year late, and each of those other guys were given very lenient ropes.

    Vijay, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane is a much better batting card now than those players were at the time they left the team.
    I don't disagree that the current mix of players for India is better than what the old guard would be if they were playing today - however that's not the comparison point. We're comparing the side and make up from when India were able to rise up the rankings and eventually claim number one, versus the India that is now there that seems destined to fall to mid table in the rankings.

    As for Sharma, sorry but he's the only Indian bowler outside of Khan who has consistently managed to take wickets away from home and trouble good batsman. Shami looks highly promising but India don't have better seam options than Sharma at the moment in test cricket. Quite simple. Rahane has a couple of good performances but has hardly set the world on fire and you seem to think that Dhoni is the reason behind the squad being selected the way it is - doubtful, he'll have a lot to do with the playing 11 but not the squad selection.

  12. #27
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    No, I have no idea if Dhoni is responsible for team selection. It sounds like he is, but there's really no way of knowing what goes on with the BCCI.
    Shami is miles better than Ishant. Umesh is better than Ishant. Pandey is probably better than Ishant. Bhuvneshwar is probably as good as a 35 year old Zaheer, if not better. Pragjan Ojha is India's best spinner yet he's not even in the test squad.

    Personally I think Dhoni should remain captain, but the point of this discussion was to say that it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that Kohli would be a fractious captain because he looks a little disappointed when he gets out. It's even more weird to assume that he'd be a more political captain when the selections for the Indian side - particularly the bowlers - look extremely political and conservative in the current status quo.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    As for Sharma, sorry but he's the only Indian bowler outside of Khan who has consistently managed to take wickets away from home and trouble good batsman. Shami looks highly promising but India don't have better seam options than Sharma at the moment in test cricket. .
    dude, you lost me here. Sharma is ****. That's it. Anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  14. #29
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    dude, you lost me here. Sharma is ****. That's it. Anyone thinking otherwise is delusional.
    Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.

  15. #30
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    Without Sharma - you'd have lost 2-0, comfortably.
    Pakistan hasn't been part of India for a wee while, mate.

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