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Thread: Thami Tsolekile put into perspective

  1. #1
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    Thami Tsolekile put into perspective

    There is a lot of discussion revolving around Thami Tsolekile currently and when you look at Thami's player record, his FC stats are atrocious. However, a recent conversation with another SA cricket enthusiast led to the realization and understanding that FC stats in SA are distorting and misleading because they include provincial and franchise level cricket. This distortion can be observed If you look at FC records for Beuran Hendricks, Ayabulelo Gqamane and D Patterson (Some awesome fast bowlers coming through the ranks), that have bowling averages below 22 and strike rates below 40. If you were a stats person, you would be asking serious questions about why they are not playing in the Proteas side? The answer is to that question is that their records are inflated by b-grade provincial FC cricket.

    To be considered for national selection, only franchise level cricket (person playing for Cobra's, Knights, Warriors, Lions, Titans, Dolphins) is considered as this is the highest level of cricket in the country. Knowing this, find below statistical batting analysis ordered by batting averages for all prospective Protea wicket keepers in SA for the last 4-5 seasons. Click on the season links to do further statistical analysis.

    2009/2010 batting records

    1. Thami Tsolokile: 581 runs @ 58.10
    2. Heino Kuhn: 577 runs @ 41.21
    3. Morne Van Wyk: 345 @ 31.36

    ** Quentin de Kock & Dane Vilas did not play this season

    2010/2011 batting records

    1. Morne van Wyk 435 @ 48.33
    2. Heino Kuhn 348 @ 26.76
    3. Thami Tsolokile 281 @ 25.54

    ** Quentin de Kock & Dane Vilas did not play this season

    2011/2012 batting records

    1. Thami Tsolekile: 476 @ 59.50
    2. Dane Vilas: 528 @ 48.00
    3. Morne van Wyk: 754 @ 44.35
    4. Heino Kuhn: 529 @ 40.69
    5. Quentin de Kock 41 @ 13.66

    2012/2013 batting records

    1. Morne van Wyk 144 @ 72.00
    2. Quentin de Kock 559 @ 46.58
    3. Thami Tsolekile 398 @ 30.61
    4. Heino Kuhn 503 @ 27.94
    5. Dane Vilas 258 @ 25.80

    2013/2014 batting records

    1. Thami Tsolekile 121 @ 121.00
    2. Heino Kuhn 171 @ 34.20
    3. Morne van Wyk 138 @ 34.50
    4. Dane Vilas 85 @ 21.25
    5. Quentin de Kock 3 @ 1.50

    ** 2013/2014 series is still on going

    To further enhance the discussion:

    1. Everyone in the country - bar no-one - agrees Thami Tsolekile is the best gloveman in the country.
    2. In franchise games where Quentin de Kock and Tsolekile play, Tsolekile is the preferred WK and QdK is picked purely as a batsman.
    3. Why is Tsolekile getting so much negative publicity when from the stats above, he is the most consistent WK batsman over a period of time?

  2. #2
    International Debutant kykweer.proteas's Avatar
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    How does his stats compare to ABDV though?

    I do not see an issue with his(AB) keeping either, he took some spectacular catches in the last game that very few keepers in the world could do.

    Tsolikile has been good for the last while, but why replace AB's full role in the SA XI?

    It is unfortunate that he is being placed in this akward position by some public figures as he is a quality player, just at this stage in test cricket he is second best...by quite some distance.
    Last edited by kykweer.proteas; 14-01-2014 at 08:40 AM.

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Is he actually any good though?

    I remember he looked pretty crap when he played against England all those years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    How does his stats compare to ABDV though?
    Can't compare. ABdV doesn't have a FC Wicket Keeper career. Tsolekile's number of tests played (3) is to small a sample to compare. To be fair to your question, why fix it if it ain't broke? Me and you can both agree on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    I do not see an issue with his(AB) keeping either, he took some spectacular catches in the last game that very few keepers in the world could do.
    Agreed. But as ABdV's profile on ESPN cricinfo says, give the man a ball, any ball, and he will most probably make a success of himself. He is that kind of individual...driven to stand at the top of the world no matter what the obstacles.

    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    Tsolikile has been good for the last while, but why replace AB's full role in the SA XI?
    1. ABdV is on record as saying he has back problems which was one the reason's he declined keeping initially.
    2. ABdV should definitely consider doing a Sangakarra on us...focus on being the best batter in the world (Which he stated in many previous interviews and which got him lots of ridicule).
    3. If you gonna pick a glove man, then pick a glove man (an opinion that has wide spread support in some Saffa circles).
    4. Why waste him as WK when we can have him as a specialist fielder?
    5. ABdV must be appointed Vice Captain and start his captaincy apprenticeship. He needs to start soaking up skill's and knowledge from Smith. Adding the VC responsibilities to his already massive workload is potentially suicidal.

    While all those reason's are debatable, it doesn't quite give comfort in the void that JK left. All of us Saffa's are feeling a little bit vulnerable at the moment so we all want ABdV to stay as WK so that we can play that extra specialist 7th batter.

    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    It is unfortunate that he is being placed in this akward position by some public figures as he is a quality player, just at this stage in test cricket he is second best...by quite some distance.
    That's putting it mildly.
    Last edited by Unomaas; 14-01-2014 at 10:35 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Is he actually any good though?
    The only way that we are going to find the answer to that question is to throw him into the deep end and see if he can swim.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I remember he looked pretty crap when he played against England all those years ago.
    Yes...he was crap but so were alot of people after 3 tests. Jacques Kallis looked crap for 7 tests before he proved to himself and the rest of the world that he belonged on the international stage.
    Last edited by Unomaas; 14-01-2014 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Is he actually any good though?

    I remember he looked pretty crap when he played against England all those years ago.
    I don't think 3 Tests played 10 years ago should carry all that much weight in the scheme of things. I mean, Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers debuted in Thami's last Test, that's how long ago it was.

    Whether he's good enough is still a valid question, but I don't think his Test career to date is all that relevant to the discussion.

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    State Captain Marius's Avatar
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    I think play the dude.

    Take the gloves away from AB and put him to bat at no 4.

    SA did without 7 batsmen before AB and we can again.

    Also, I looked at Boucher and Thami's FC stats. Boucher averages 33 and Thami 30 (but for Bouch half of those games were Tests).

    I think Thami'ss good enough and it'll shut the "Transformation at any cost" morons up for a bit.

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    International Debutant kykweer.proteas's Avatar
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    But still. if Tsolikele gets selected then who will he replace?

    The space Kallis left? No replace an all rounder with a 50+ average with a keeper would be ridiculous.

    Replace Duminy? Not a fan but with Kallis gone duminys role as a fifth bowler is gold.

    Replace FAF? Thats what most likely will happen, and thats what will piss people off and why This Tsolikele thing is being viewes so negatively.
    Last edited by kykweer.proteas; 15-01-2014 at 02:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    But still. if Tsolikele gets selected then who will he replace?

    The space Kallis left? No replace an all rounder with a 50+ average with a keeper would be ridiculous.

    Replace Duminy? Not a fan but with Kallis gone duminys role as a fifth bowler is gold.

    Replace FAF? Thats what most likely will happen, and thats what will piss people off and why This Tsolikele thing is being viewes so negatively.
    Why do we need seven batsmen?

    Keep Duminy, then we still have the fifth bowler.

    So, my side for the Test against Aus is as follows:

    Smith
    Petersen
    Amla
    De Villiers
    Du Plessis
    Duminy
    Tsoekile
    Peterson (although I think it's time to give Harmer a go, but the selectors won't do that just yet)
    Philander
    Steyn
    Morkel

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    Quote Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas View Post
    But still. if Tsolikele gets selected then who will he replace?

    The space Kallis left? No replace an all rounder with a 50+ average with a keeper would be ridiculous.

    Replace Duminy? Not a fan but with Kallis gone duminys role as a fifth bowler is gold.

    Replace FAF? Thats what most likely will happen, and thats what will piss people off and why This Tsolikele thing is being viewes so negatively.
    Replace Faf...are you on drugs?

    If it does come down to it, we will pick our best six batters based on batter ability. Elgar/JP/Stiaan must then compete for the 6 batter position. The fact that Elgar and JP are successful part time bowlers for their franchises is neither here nor there. They are chosen as batters and that's their primary role. If they can't produce in their primary role then they should be booted out of the team.

    In the series against Aus, we want 7 specialist batters against MJ because when that man has his tail up, he is destructive. Even Dean Elgar must be s****ing in his pants at the thought of MJ terrorizing him again seeing that MJ gave him a pair on debut. Because of the MJ factor, I wouldn't pick Thami or Quentin. They will be cannon fodder for MJ. I would rather have Thami play the following Zimbabwe and West Indies series because there will be less pressure. If Thami can't hack it against them, then Quentin is next in line.

    ABdV to play WK against Aus but I must admit, I'm a little worried because of his hand surgery and the thought of the ball thudding into those gloves from the SAF fast bowlers.
    Last edited by Unomaas; 15-01-2014 at 04:39 AM.



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