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Thread: The case of the missing black Test cricketer

  1. #91
    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Is this your homework Larry?

  2. #92
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    Shocking how?

  3. #93
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    When this thread started, I was a little bit emotionally charged. I pride myself on being rational and logical hence I felt the need to take a time out from this thread, take a child pill and re-center my wa.

    I was very miffed when you said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marius
    The South African government divides the population into four racial categories: African, Coloured, Indian (all three of which fall under the overall classification of black), and whites.
    And then you continued to enforce the distinction which to me was just re-enforcing the idea that your ideas on race and culture would be better suited to pre 1990's.

    During my hiatus from this thread, I came to remember that while I myself am a direct victim of Apartheid, so are you.

    Nobody can tell you who or what you are. There is no law in our country that says you have to identify yourself as White, Black, Coloured, Mixed race, etc. There is no "formal" class or race status in this country and nothing anybody says to the contrary should convince you otherwise.

    In fact, you are under no legal obligation to answer that question. Its called freedom. The freedom to choose. The freedom not to be told who you are.

    In future if someone wants to ram classifications down your throat, you have my blessing and the blessing of the rest of South Africa to practice verbal kung-fu on the idiot. When you see, the question in print, answer N/A or just ignore it. If you are going for a job interview and someone wants to know your classification, tell them to go stuff their job. When the Census people come knocking at your door and need to select the race option, don't. You have a choice. Exercise it!

  4. #94
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    That article just reeks of bitterness over some guy who was never good enough to be a professional and is looking for excuses.
    5-0

    RIP Craig Walsh (Craig) 1985-2012

    Proudly supporting the #2 cricketer of all time.


  5. #95
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Oh what a surprise; a ridiculous article lacking any sort of context from Firdose Moonda.

    He left South Africa when he was 19. For context, Dale Steyn made his First Class debut at 20. He'd been recognised as a player of promise by being selected in his provincial Under 19s team even SA Under 19 Talent Squad (!!) but like most young cricketers, things do not come easy for you immediately.

    Moreover, he hasn't really got anywhere near playing First Class cricket in England anyway. There are definitely more opportunities to be a semi-professional cricketer if you're not First Class standard in England so that's probably why he's enjoying it there; he's done nothing to suggest he's any good at all other than talk a big game.
    BeeGee likes this.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unomaas View Post
    When this thread started, I was a little bit emotionally charged. I pride myself on being rational and logical hence I felt the need to take a time out from this thread, take a child pill and re-center my wa.

    I was very miffed when you said this:



    And then you continued to enforce the distinction which to me was just re-enforcing the idea that your ideas on race and culture would be better suited to pre 1990's.

    During my hiatus from this thread, I came to remember that while I myself am a direct victim of Apartheid, so are you.

    Nobody can tell you who or what you are. There is no law in our country that says you have to identify yourself as White, Black, Coloured, Mixed race, etc. There is no "formal" class or race status in this country and nothing anybody says to the contrary should convince you otherwise.

    In fact, you are under no legal obligation to answer that question. Its called freedom. The freedom to choose. The freedom not to be told who you are.

    In future if someone wants to ram classifications down your throat, you have my blessing and the blessing of the rest of South Africa to practice verbal kung-fu on the idiot. When you see, the question in print, answer N/A or just ignore it. If you are going for a job interview and someone wants to know your classification, tell them to go stuff their job. When the Census people come knocking at your door and need to select the race option, don't. You have a choice. Exercise it!
    That's exactly what I do do!

    I refuse to put my race on forms that ask for it.

    But if people are making an argument around race (as Vice and Moonda do), then it is necessary to rebut them with race too.

    One of the biggest mistakes that this government has made is the continued obsession with the hues of our skin.

    Racial and ethnic classifications are ridiculous, but due to our country's history, they are still, unfortunately, a big part of our history. I can't change that.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Oh what a surprise; a ridiculous article lacking any sort of context from Firdose Moonda.

    He left South Africa when he was 19. For context, Dale Steyn made his First Class debut at 20. He'd been recognised as a player of promise by being selected in his provincial Under 19s team even SA Under 19 Talent Squad (!!) but like most young cricketers, things do not come easy for you immediately.

    Moreover, he hasn't really got anywhere near playing First Class cricket in England anyway. There are definitely more opportunities to be a semi-professional cricketer if you're not First Class standard in England so that's probably why he's enjoying it there; he's done nothing to suggest he's any good at all other than talk a big game.
    I know, dire article.

    How Moonda is one of the most prominent cricket writers in SA is mind boggling.

    Useless fact: She went to the same school as my girlfriend.

  8. #98
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    serious question: how many years from now will we see the first all-black South Africa team?
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullarkey View Post
    serious question: how many years from now will we see the first all-black South Africa team?
    Zimbabwe still doesn't have an all-black team and they have been under majority rule for much longer than SA, and their white population is tiny compared to SA.

    And why does it matter?

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    Zimbabwe still doesn't have an all-black team and they have been under majority rule for much longer than SA, and their white population is tiny compared to SA.

    And why does it matter?
    It doesn't matter a jot to me just asking.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullarkey View Post
    serious question: how many years from now will we see the first all-black South Africa team?
    No! Wrong!

    The key word is "representation".

    Change your question to:

    Quote Originally Posted by mullarkey
    serious question: how many years from now will we see the first representative South Africa team?
    Unknown. To many unknown's to contend with to answer the question.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unomaas View Post
    No! Wrong!

    The key word is "representation".

    Change your question to:



    Unknown. To many unknown's to contend with to answer the question.
    What does 'representative' mean though?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    What does 'representative' mean though?
    2011 South Africa Census Data

    Plainly stated that given any social event or gathering of people in SA, that given an imaginary upper limit of say 1000, that theoretically, there would be:

    796 African black/Mixed Race people
    90 Coloured people
    89 White people
    25 Asian people

    Translated to an imaginary SA test cricket team squad of 15 people in a perfect world, there would be:

    12 African black/Mixed race people
    1 white person
    1 Coloured person
    1 Asian

    These numbers and percentages assume a perfect statistical distribution and while there might be discrepancies to the mean, mode and median of any given sample population, allowances would be made such that given numerous population samples and the calculation of the standard mean (average), we would always get a perfect distribution of:

    79.6% African black people
    9.0 % Coloured people
    8.9 % White people
    2.5% Asian people

    In any normal population, this distribution will happen naturally. SA is not normal as I'm sure many of you have picked up already.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unomaas View Post
    2011 South Africa Census Data

    Plainly stated that given any social event or gathering of people in SA, that given an imaginary upper limit of say 1000, that theoretically, there would be:

    796 African black/Mixed Race people
    90 Coloured people
    89 White people
    25 Asian people

    Translated to an imaginary SA test cricket team squad of 15 people in a perfect world, there would be:

    12 African black/Mixed race people
    1 white person
    1 Coloured person
    1 Asian

    These numbers and percentages assume a perfect statistical distribution and while there might be discrepancies to the mean, mode and median of any given sample population, allowances would be made such that given numerous population samples and the calculation of the standard mean (average), we would always get a perfect distribution of:

    79.6% African black people
    9.0 % Coloured people
    8.9 % White people
    2.5% Asian people

    In any normal population, this distribution will happen naturally. SA is not normal as I'm sure many of you have picked up already.
    So, what happens in the national Test side?

    We're screwed, Indians will never be allowed to get a gig, cause they make up only 2% of the population!

    This is representivity taken to its logical conclusion, which is ridiculous.

    You yourself said that nobody can 'label' us which I agree. Therefore, a representative South African side is one which has South Africans in it, no matter their ancestry. Hendrik Verwoerd must be sitting in hell rubbing his hands in glee at how South Africans are still so obsessed with race.

  15. #105
    Global Moderator nightprowler10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unomaas View Post
    To all the Pakistani's

    If you had 1 muslim and 10 christian's representing your team, how would you feel about that?
    Well it depends on if they can bat and catch.

    If yes then why would I give a **** who or what they worship?

    If not then they're as good as the rest of country and hence fairly represent the nation.
    Fusion likes this.
    RIP Craigos

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